Archaeologica.org

The Portuguese were certainly well ahead of Columbus as they regularly fished the Grand Banks for what they called 'Stock Fish', the Cod. The area was so important to them they did all they could to keep their efforts from the rest of Europe. They even had a government position for the control of the fishing it was so important.

Having read about melungians before while doing genealogical research, it turns out they were much ancient than a simple mixure of european and natives as many believed and still think. Some mtDNA and Y-DNA studies have been conducted, mainly by members of the group who themselves are interested in their own origins. One overwhelming trait of the melungian is they belong to R1b or R1a mtDNA halpogroup.

One article is writtern here:
http://www.melungeons.com/articles/melu ... tm#Panther

Understand that the results cited in the article are based on genealogical surname research and not specific scientifc research.

Since the mtDNA indicates european or asian origin, they are not shipwrecked or lucky sailors who had shoreleave in the 'new' world. There is no specific evidence of direct Portuguese DNA but according to the author seem more Turkish (perhaps they are from Moorish stock).

Some Y-DNA tests have been conducted also indicate a mixure of group of european and asian influence.

The fact is, I know of no definitive scientific study which has published any papers identifying the source of these people. They are an interesting group which survive to this day in mainly in appalachia.

Interesting point there Monk. You refer to Moorish stock, possible, I'm not qualified to comment, but interestingly there is apparently no genetic evidence amongst the present population of the Moors ever having been in Iberia, so if what you suggest were to turn out to be correct their migration would have had to have been very late or was not in some manner lost in a greater population. Why there is no genetic evidence of the North Africans in Iberia is something of a mystery to me.

Digit wrote:there is no genetic evidence of the North Africans in Iberia is something of a mystery to me.

You are somewhat correct as attested in the following reference:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/j ... 17584Guest

There was some bi-directional mixing of the genes across the straits of gilbraltor but no large scale influence. My suggestion of moorish stock was based on the findings of the surname studies themselves. You are correct, the migration would have been late, between the 7th and 12th century AE but before Columbus.

Thee should be Portuguese records of missing ships. Prince Henry was a born bureaucrat.

Bit more info there Min.
http://www.wordplay.com/tourism/portuges.html

The fact is, I know of no definitive scientific study which has published any papers identifying the source of these people

mtdna R is the group who went into europe and wiped out the neanderthals living there
they were known as cro magnons which makes most people think theyre some type of caveman but in reality they were HSS
they were us

those mulungians may have been living there a long time

Though I speculated a possible preColumbian origin for the Melungians, there is really no other evidence to remotely support it. The most likely origin is they are somehow exiles of the Spanish Inquisition and may have been sent or chose to come here in the early 1600's or possible sooner. I am posting this link because it some worthwhile info about the melungian and has useful links: http://www.mediamonitors.net/brentkennedy1.html

This page shows who the melungian are most closely related to:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~mtnties/genetic.html

The mtDNA-r grouping is fact. If they are closely related to north african, middle eastern, turkish ancestry; I am not certain how that ties with modern migration theories. I don't think anyone thinks of them as a direct, remote branch of cro-magnon living in the appalachian hills. Especially since they identified themselves as "portyghee". Interestingly enough their descendents still carry genetic diseases related to certain north african and mediteranean areas and some descendents have had six fingers or six toes.

Especially since they identified themselves as "portyghee"

I think thats a bit tenuous without evidence that they actually speak portugese fluently
if they did that would have been sure to have been mentioned because they would have been able to tell exactly where they had come from and how they had got there
i can tell you for a fact that the pronouciation from a native speaker of that language would never say that
they say "portugayse"

marduk wrote:I think thats a bit tenuous without evidence that they actually speak portugese fluently
if they did that would have been sure to have been mentioned because they would have been able to tell exactly where they had come from and how they had got there
i can tell you for a fact that the pronouciation from a native speaker of that language would never say that
they say "portugayse"

I absolutely agree with you on both counts. I am certain they could not have been speaking a native portugese as even the french spoken in Canada is a corrupted form and the friulano spoken in Toronto is a deviant form of the friulano spoken in northeast Italy. After a few generations the language becomes stale or influenced by the dominate language. Of course that depends on the degree of isolation from the cultural source of the language. I wonder how the portugese spoke in 1600 compared to today.

It is strange, they never seem to have mentioned their past or where they came from. hmmmm

they were probably republicans in that case

thats why they wouldnt say who they were

I haven't looked into the melungians yet, although I have heard of them,
since I live in NC.
Just a comment on language preservation.
In the mid 18th century thousands of Germans migrated south out of Pennsylvaniainto the Virginia, NC, and SC piedmont and highlands.
BUt NO one speaks German there any more, and there are few remnants of German culture. You can find old
Lutheran churches with german tombstones, but many the modern descendents buried in the same cemeteries have anglicized their names.
Schmidt to Smith, for examle.

theres a reason that Germans anglicised their names
it has to do with the assasination of a guy called Ferdinand

why you think the windsors are calling themselves the Sax Coburg Gothas anymore
you are also failing to take into account that they lost their language because they were raising their children in a predominantly english speaking country
this is not in any terms similar to the Melungeons who would have kept their portuguese heritage if they had one

besides which
this isn't as much of a mystery as you think
the reason that you can't find many webpages that discuss their origins is because their origins are totally known
i.e. its a total non mystery
its even in the dictionary if you care to look
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Melungeon

Melungeon

\Me*lun"geon\, n. [Cf. F. m['e]langer to mix, m['e]lange a mixture.] One of a mixed white and Indian people living in parts of Tennessee and the Carolinas. They are descendants of early intermixtures of white settlers with natives. In North Carolina the Croatan Indians, regarded as descended from Raleigh's lost colony of Croatan,(i.e Roanoke) formerly classed with negroes, are now legally recognized as distinct.

and wikipedia has all the answers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon

ok now i've read this great article posted by Monk.
Seems convincing to me! Thanks, Monk.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/brentkennedy1.html

Yes, Marduk, they were in very different situations.
As I said, I hadn't read the Melungian story yet.

But a lot of the Germans here did not anglicize their names, inspite of
international events.
Propst, Schultz, Wilhelm, Prim, and many more.
The Germans assimilated and intermarried pretty thoroughly with the scots irish.

The Melungian story seems to be another one of racism and marginalization.