Party Boy

[Rokcet Scientist]

I resisted the idea in my first response, mainly because I felt the "global trade" issue was the main stumbling block to tobacco in Egypt. The idea of ancient global trade is like admitting there are hand-axes in North America. We don't speak of it.

The tobacco part of that mummy 'mystery' has been solved since: it appears there used to be an old world variant of the tobacco plant – with very similar DNA – which went extinct a few millennia ago (when the green Sahara dried up).

[Digit]

As regards growing the Cocoa plant in the old world RS could well be correct on the global trade bit.
What makes us think that the Egyptians ever saw the seeds?
It's unlikely that the middle men would have offered them for sale, they would lose the profit on the leaves at that point, and if they picked up the leaves as cargo on the eastern seaboard of SA they may never have seen the growing plant.
The Chinese kept the secret of silk production for many years for the reason of profits.

[Cognito]

I can understand how traders would only send the leaves and not the plants. By the way, coca leaves are generally grown at elevations between 1650 and 4950 feet (between 503 and 1509 meters). Source:http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/GovPubs/cocccp.htm There are plenty of places in Egypt that would fall into that elevation range. Source:http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... Egypt.html

Just wondering out loud what other explanation there might be other than a global trade network.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[...] between 1650 and 4950 feet (between 503 and 1509 meters). Source:http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/GovPubs/cocccp.htm There are plenty of places in Egypt that would fall into that elevation range. Source:http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... Egypt.html

But none with similar climatic conditions required for lush greenery. Different precipitation levels and patterns. Different average humidity. Different wind patterns. Different seasonal patterns. So on, so forth.
They have a hard time growing olives in Egypt anywhere outside the Nile valley. Let alone coca.

No, imo coca could never have thrived in Egypt in the last 6,000 or 7,000 years. (What was or wasn't possible before that is anybody's guess as of yet, of course). Yet the mummies containing it were between 2,500 and 3,500 years BP....

[Sam Salmon]

Just wondering out loud what other explanation there might be other than a global trade network.

Sloppy lab work on the part of some minor league researcher.

Marijuana is supposed to have originated in Central Asia-the rest to me is just bunk.

[Forum Monk]

I wasn't aware of a tobacco variant in north africa during its lush period. iirc, tobacco in north america was mainly used as an hallucinogen by shaman and medicine men. It was not smoked or ingested in moderate quantities but usually consumed ritualistically in large quantities to achieve the desired affect.

[Minimalist]

but usually consumed ritualistically in large quantities to achieve the desired affect.

Much like modern beer.

[Forum Monk]

A friend of mine, sent this link to me today.

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?n ... cle&sid=45

Covers the issue pretty well if you ask me.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Well, it doesn't explain the cocaïne in those mummies, does it?

[Beagle]

Pretty good paper Monk, but we're still left with two options. Trans-oceanic trading versus a home grown but now extinct plant. If it was a homegrown plant, wouldn't everyone have used it, and not just the upper class? Unless it came from India or Afghanistan.

If people become addicted to a plant substance, it's unlikely that they will allow it to become extinct I think.

The issue is a real bag of worms and I don't think that paper clarified anything...for me at least.

[Beagle]

Whoops - another thing. Cocaine as we know it is a very powerful drug. In it's refined form it often causes death to the user. However, the native Indians only chewed the Coca leaf, which produces mild to moderate stimulation.

With the active metabolite being at a dramatically lower level in another plant, which was cited for nicotine and cannabis, it probably wouldn't be used at all.

[Forum Monk]

I don't think the drugs, cocaine in particular, were used recreationaly or casually. But rather in the treatment of some condition. i.e. pain.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I don't think the drugs, cocaine in particular, were used recreationaly or casually. But rather in the treatment of some condition. i.e. pain.

Why do you think that, Monk?

[Forum Monk]

Why do you think that, Monk?

Because that's how I use it - strictly medicinal.


No - just kidding.

Because these things were used ritualistically or medicinally in other parts of the world, particularly the americas, mainly by shamans (shamen?) and medicine men, it seems a logical extension to assume the egyptian culture did the same. I think it was prescribed by the medicine man.

Another possibility, although remote, is some kind of contamination. It is my understanding that 70 mummies tested posiive and all were located in Munich. To date, no independent confirmations have been seen or did I miss something?

[Charlie Hatchett]

Because that's how I use it - strictly medicinal.