Clovis Europeans Killed By Comet?????

[kbs2244]

I don't know what kind of assassination would lead us down the road of giving back what we acquired fair and square under the Holy Right of Manifest Destiny.
If I was an invading forces officer, however, I do think my daily activity would be effected with the knowledge that some upset citizen of the country I was invading might take a pot shot at me from a mile and half away.

[Minimalist]

Fear not, the psychopaths at the NRA want to protect the freedom of gun nuts to have such weapons in civilian hands!

If 'criminal hands' equals 'civilian hands' they've already got more than enough.
What with the way the US army controls and tracks its weapons – NOT – that's a given.
It was in the news just last week that they 'lost' 190,000 guns in Iraq . . .

It's not as if we don't know what country they are in or anything.

[Digit]

As reported over here RS it is not the US forces that have lost the weapons but the so called Iraqi Security forces that have 'mislaid', ie handed over to which ever clan, group, religious militia, insurgent groups they happen to support!
When I was younger there were many men about who had served in Palestine, Egypt, Yemen etc and not one I met would trust these people.

[Minimalist]

When I was younger there were many men about who had served in Palestine, Egypt, Yemen etc and not one I met would trust these people.

Bush The Dumber is a very trusting soul!

[Gary Svindal]

It is disappointing that such seriously relevant theories relating to the disappearance of the Clovis people should rapidly degenerate into irrelevant political statements. Political statements have nothing to do with furthering intelligent discourse, and only result in acrimony.

The comet theory should garner intense debate and investigation. Even Al Goodyear at the pristine Topper Site has fallen into that camp after iridium tests at the Topper Site: "They found iridium and plenty of it," said Goodyear. "The high concentrations were much higher than you would normally see in the background of the earth's crust. That tends to be an indicator of a terrestrial impact from outer space." Note also that the Iridium testing team found high iridium concentrations at six other Clovis sites throughout North America, as well as in and along the rims of the Carolina Bays.

The Younger- Dryas Event suggests that a large comet exploded above Canada, creating a storm of fiery fragments that rained over North America. The fragments could have easily killed the giant mammals of the day, as well as Clovis man. "No one has ever had a really good explanation for the disappearance of mammoth and mastodon," Goodyear said. "The archaeological community is waking up to the Younger-Dryas Event. It doesn't prove that these Clovis people were affected by this comet, but it is consistent with the idea that something catastrophic happened to the Clovis people at the same time period."

http://uscnews.sc.edu/ARCH190.html

[Digit]

I investigated the idea of destructive impacts some years ago Gary for some writing I was doing. Impact killed the Dinos etc, but I find problems with this.
The idea seems to be, an impact takes place, the archaeological record shows loss of species, ipso facto, impact killed them.
But did it?
My reasoning is simple, how?
New ideas in science often face an uphill struggle for acceptance, but once accepted they take on life of their own and can be difficult to destroy, as with Dinos wiped out by impact, which when examined in detail is difficult to support.
What was the mechanics of the Canadian impact? How did it cause an ice age? Comets are supposed to be fragile things composed mainly of water ice, they tell me.
Somebody help!

[Beagle]

It is disappointing that such seriously relevant theories relating to the disappearance of the Clovis people should rapidly degenerate into irrelevant political statements. Political statements have nothing to do with furthering intelligent discourse, and only result in acrimony.

The comet theory should garner intense debate and investigation. Even Al Goodyear at the pristine Topper Site has fallen into that camp after iridium tests at the Topper Site: "They found iridium and plenty of it," said Goodyear. "The high concentrations were much higher than you would normally see in the background of the earth's crust. That tends to be an indicator of a terrestrial impact from outer space." Note also that the Iridium testing team found high iridium concentrations at six other Clovis sites throughout North America, as well as in and along the rims of the Carolina Bays.

The Younger- Dryas Event suggests that a large comet exploded above Canada, creating a storm of fiery fragments that rained over North America. The fragments could have easily killed the giant mammals of the day, as well as Clovis man. "No one has ever had a really good explanation for the disappearance of mammoth and mastodon," Goodyear said. "The archaeological community is waking up to the Younger-Dryas Event. It doesn't prove that these Clovis people were affected by this comet, but it is consistent with the idea that something catastrophic happened to the Clovis people at the same time period."

http://uscnews.sc.edu/ARCH190.html

Hi Gary. I agree completely, but thus far this theory has not generated much interest here. Cognito started a thread on it, and then Charlie did.

I think that may change this fall when it is presented on TV. The National Geographic Channel and Nova will have it on. Hopefully Min will be able to record and distribute it to our friends overseas.

[Minimalist]

First I'm hearing of it Beags....I hope it isn't in October when I'm away!

In the meantime, The Decider and his war remain fair game for an occasional pot shot.

[Cognito]

Cognito started a thread on it, and then Charlie did.

I may have started a thread on it, but I'm a skeptic since I still have problems with the timeframes and some of the conflicting data.

[Digit]

And in my case Cogs, the mechanics of it.

[Digit]

http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/barry/2000Paper.html

I just love the manner in which this writer bases a complete scenario on a liquid foundation.

[Gary Svindal]

I must have missed the previous threads on this topic, but this comet scenario conjecture of about 1290 years ago is puzzling. Has the iridium layer been re-dated? The worldwide iridium layer is supposed to date back to the end of the cretaceous period or about 40 mya, and must have been a massive body of material with a solid nickel core. So, how does the worldwide iridium layer relate to Clovis sites and the disappearance of the mammoths? Have they identified a newer iridium layer specific to North America?

At this point, I must agree with digit and cog that the time frame seems totally skewed. I'll certainly schedule myself to watch the National Geographic Special, Beags. Perhaps that will clear up some of my reservations concerning the time frames proposed.

[Beagle]

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/nuclear.html

Gary, here is the Firestone Theory, and the one supported by Al Goodyear, among others. As with any new theory, it will probably have some modifications as time goes by.

After speaking with Al Goodyear, and visiting the Topper site, I feel convinced that a large cosmic event befell the Clovis people on the eastern seaboard.

[Minimalist]

NUCLEAR CATASTROPHE IN PALEOINDIAN TIMES

?

I thought we were talking about a comet?

It's going to be hard enough to convince anyone that Charlie has found pre-Columbian iron in Texas. A nuclear blast might be going too far.

[Beagle]

http://www.clovisinthesoutheast.net/firestone.html

An abstract is probably better.