History of the Catholic Church and its calendar

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:56 am

I would rather deal with War Arrow's Mesoamerican long count and short count calendars than try to understand how the RC came up the date of Easter. For some reason, in spite of the equinox tied to the sun, Pasqua (easter) is tied to the moon - after the equinox. I think its an attempt to maintain some synchronicity with the passover as the Hebrews have followed a lunar ceremonial calendar since ancient times alothough I am not sure if any true correspondence between passover and easter exists in modern times.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:04 am

Lapsed Ish! Easter and Passover both use a Lunar calender Monk as does Islam, makes sense from the viewpoint of the age, I doubt Moses had a calender hanging on the wall anywhere and people should be able to recognise the phases of the Moon.
But Constantine made a deliberate attempt to remove any connections between Passover and Easter, this was in effect the start of the schism between Jewish Christains and the RC church.
Paul had previously made arrangements that satisfied both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.
Nicea was a triumph of politics over religion, it was downhill from there on.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:53 am

Thanks for that correction, Digit. That's very interesting.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:35 am

Its acceptable to me to establish certain dates to commemorate important events such as the birth and death of the one who established the religion. And I also seem to understand the rationale behind absconding with the older and much more widespread pagan ceremonial dates. I can even understand that the chosen dates do not necesarily correspond to the historical dates, for example, it is doubtful Jesus was born in December. I don't understand easter, however. Why does it float around the full moon and all the other dates are fixed to a specific day? For me the purpose is lost and I don't really care to research it.

I remember one time looking at a computer program to calculate the date of easter for any year. It was huge; which gives me a measure about how complicated the calculation really is.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:26 pm

Monk, Easter is the premier Christian festival. It was the only instruction that Jesus gave his followers concerning festivals. For this reason Jehovahs Witneses celebrate this event alone in the calender.
If you know when the Vernal Equinox is, and the ancient astrologers would have, the rest of the calculation is straight forward.
As I stated earlier, the reason for the arrangement was to ensure that the celebration took place at a different time to the celebration of Passover, a clear attempt to distance Christianity from Judaism, something that the early Christian fathers objected to, and so started the Catholic Church on its path of rigid dogma.
The greater part of the Roman Empire in western Europe was a battle against Druidism, one of the only 2 religions the Roman's suppressed, and as Ishta pointed out, the easiest method was, having eliminated the Druidic class, was to absorb their days into an imaginary Christian calender, along with Mithraic and other established 'Roman' practises.
As for fixed festivals, this is a later innovation, part of our left wing government's intrusion into what they they don't like. With Easter as the starting date the other festivals were calculated as occuring so many days after Easter, and so also 'floated'.
The government then created Holidays for the working class and found that the wanderings of the calender was an inconvenience, and so created the 'Spring Holiday' to replace Whitsun, then Mayday and others which were all fixed and so, as people got the day off work, these began to take over in importance from the Christian 'Holy Days' that they supplanted.
As the Church sanctified individuals their days were also fixed.
But the true Christian festivals, as celebrated by the Church, still wander through the calender.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:43 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Digit.
Funnily, the separation of Christianity from Judiaism seems ridiculous. First off, Jesus was a Jew as were the first Christians. Secondly, the arrest of Jesus occured on the evening of the Passover, the crucifixion prior to the following sabbath and the resurrection on the following Sunday, basically the 3rd day after the Passover. The entire event is inextricibly linked to passover. **sigh** its the religion part of religion that I don't get. It tends to be elitist, repressive and exclusive. All the things Jesus opposed.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:30 pm

All the things Jesus opposed.

Precisely! There are still people out there who refuse to accept that Jesus, along with Saul/Paul and the Disciples were Jews!

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:50 pm

Digit wrote:Monk, Easter is the premier Christian festival. It was the only instruction that Jesus gave his followers concerning festivals.

But I'm assuming he wasn't telling them to celebrate his crucifixion on it?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:29 pm

No Ish.

His instructions were for the Passover meal, taken over as Easter, which as you pointed out was done in many ways to replace a pagan festival as well as to distance the Catholic Church from the Jews.
The Church is as much a political entity as the Labour Party, but without the financial problems.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:38 pm

Ishtar wrote:But I'm assuming he wasn't telling them to celebrate his crucifixion on it?

Not really. At least I don't think so (not being an authority on Catholic doctrine). The symbolic act of communion (which many think is cannabalistic but they miss the point) was commanded as Digit already said: "...in remembrance of me". The broken bread and wine, symbolic of the broken body and spilt blood. That act and symbolism ties in with Hebrew Passover when the lamb's blood spread over the lintels and doorposts ensured that the angel of death would pass by the house. It represented salvation from death but reminds people that salvation comes at the cost of death.

The Church's celebration of Easter is a celebration of Christ's victory over death and the hope of a future resurrection. But I'm not sure it was commanded to be celebrated. Still, no one likes depressing holidays so why not a celebration of life?

The old feast days were instituted by divine decree, the modern ones by political pronouncement.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:38 pm

Digit wrote: The Church is as much a political entity as the Labour Party, but without the financial problems.

Yes, their problems are more to do with sex.

There's a saying among journos: What always brings down a Tory government is sex. But what brings down a Labour government is sleaze (financial corruption).

Perhaps the Church, in that case, is closer to the Tory party. I've heard it said that the Church of England is the Tory party at prayer.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:42 pm

Forum Monk wrote:
The old feast days were instituted by divine decree, the modern ones by political pronouncement.

It would be interesting to get hold of an old Druid/Celtic calendar of their holy days and see which ones have been supplanted.

Another is Samhain, or Hallowe'en as it's more popularly known. I think the church has hijacked that date (Oct 31) as All Spirits Day, or something like it?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:46 pm

Ishtar wrote:I think the church has hijacked that date (Oct 31) as All Spirits Day, or something like it?

November 1 is All Saint's Day and Halloween is All Hollow's Eve (the evening before). Or at least that's the christian propoganda. Isn't it true something was going on Oct 31 which predates the christian era??

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:53 pm

Yes, Samhain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain

Samhain (pronounced /ˈsaʊn/ or /ˈsɑːwɪn/; Irish /ˈsˠaunʲ/ from the Old Irish samain) is the word for November in the Gaelic languages. The Scottish Gaelic spelling is Samhainn or Samhuinn (for the feast), or an t-Samhain (for the month). The Festival of Samhain is a celebration of the end of the harvest season in Gaelic culture, and is generally regarded as 'The Celtic New Year'.

The same word was used for a month in the ancient Celtic calendar, in particular the first three nights of this month, with the festival marking the end of the summer season and the end of the harvest. A modernized version of this festival continues today in some of the traditions of the Catholic All Souls' Day, the secular Halloween, and in folk practices of Samhain itself in the Celtic Nations and the Irish and Scottish diasporas. It is also observed by various types of Neopagans.

I think Candlemass is another one they pinched. I think it was originally the Celtic Imbolc festival, but I'll check.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:59 pm

Candlemass is 40 days from Christ's birth (ie. first week of Feb). That ties in with Imbolc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbolc

That Imbolc was an important time to the ancient inhabitants of Ireland can be seen at a number of Megalithic and Neolithic sites, such as at the Loughcrew burial mounds and the Mound of the Hostages in Tara, Ireland. Here, the inner chamber of the passage tombs are perfectly aligned with the rising sun of both Imbolc and Samhain. Similar to the phenomena seen at Newgrange, the rising Imbolc sun shines down the long passageway and illuminates the inner chamber of the tomb.

Imbolc is one of the four principal festivals of the Irish calendar, celebrated among Gaelic peoples and some other Celtic cultures either at the beginning of February or at the first local signs of Spring. Originally dedicated to the goddess Brigid, in the Christian period it was adopted as St Brigid's Day. In Scotland the festival is also known as Là Fhèill Brìghde, in Ireland as Lá Fhéile Bríde, and in Wales as Gwyl Ffraed.

Imbolc is traditionally a time of weather prognostication, and the old tradition of watching to see if serpents or badgers came from their winter dens is perhaps a precursor to Groundhog Day. A Scottish Gaelic proverb about the day is:

Thig an nathair as an toll
La donn Bride,
Ged robh tri traighean dh’ an t-sneachd
Air leachd an lair.

"The serpent will come from the hole
On the brown Day of Bride,
Though there should be three feet of snow
On the flat surface of the ground."

Fire and purification are an important aspect of this festival. Brigid (also known as Brighid, Bríde, Brigit, Brìd) is the goddess of poetry, healing and smithcraft. As both goddess and saint she is also associated with holy wells, sacred flames, and healing. The lighting of candles and fires represents the return of warmth and the increasing power of the Sun over the coming month