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Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:52 pm
by dannan14
Well, we really are talking about several different things here. When i jumped in, i was responding to your comment:
Gorillas are vegetarians and spend much of their day eating, their paunch is due to their having a digestive tract adapted to a vegetarian, raw diet.
If you tried it you would probably starve to death!
i was just pointing out that you wouldn't starve to death. The vegans, well, of course they're a whole other story to themselves.
But, HE likely would not have had such philosophical or ethical points of view when it came to food. So, we know HE had fire. We know he liked to eat. i'm not at all shocked that they were able to cook. However, i think what we're asking is, what was going around when HE discovered that fire and or hot water made some foods easier to eat/digest and allowed new foods (starchy roots, etc) to be added to their diet.
This brings me to your question regarding the length of the human digestive tract. Over the last two million years, it either stayed roughly the same as it is now, or it has become shorter because of the efficiencies gained from cooking?
i don't know. But what i think, is that before cooking was discovered, People concentrated their diets, as much as possible, on energy rich foods. These would include nuts, berries, eggs, shellfish, and i'm sure a host of other foods that aren't coming to mind. Cooking didn't make people healthier, but it did raise the efficiency of digestion. i just don't it was so drastic as going from spending nearly every waking hour eating, to just a few hours a day.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:53 pm
by Minimalist
Over the last two million years, it either stayed roughly the same as it is now, or it has become shorter because of the efficiencies gained from cooking?
What about just eating meat/fish? As I recall herbivores have much more complex digestive systems precisely because eating vegetation is less efficient.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:33 pm
by dannan14
Well, do the Inuit and other Polar tribes have shorter intestines than the rest of us? i guess that may not work since the Polar adaptation is probably too recent genetically speaking.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:58 am
by Digit
As I recall herbivores have much more complex digestive systems precisely because eating vegetation is less efficient.
This brings me to your question regarding the length of the human digestive tract. Over the last two million years, it either stayed roughly the same as it is now, or it has become shorter because of the efficiencies gained from cooking?
It has got shorter as skeletal remains would suggest. Which brings me back to my question of when the genetic change took place.
Cooking didn't make people healthier,
Cooking kills parasites, bacteria and fungal infections Dan.
The anecdotal bit simply isn't applicable to the trial I watched on TV Dan, Chimps spend much of their day eating, as do cattle, horses and elephants etc. Yet Lions etc spend much of their lives as couch potatoes.
The calorific value is very different between the food stuffs and we are no longer equiped to live in the manner of early hominids.
However, i think what we're asking is, what was going around when HE discovered that fire and or hot water made some foods easier to eat/digest and allowed new foods (starchy roots, etc) to be added to their diet.
I doubt very much that ease of digestion etc played much part in the process.
On the basis that nobody woke one morning and decided to start the day with a cooked breakfast we need to look elsewhere.
Each year the plains of Africa and Asia are struck by grass fires. In Africa you will see such as Secretary birds scavanging the fire line for animals that didn't escape.
Early hominids would almost certaily have done the same, (See! There
is such a thing as a free lunch!)
They could not have missed the improved flavour of the meat, the rest would be history.
Roy.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:48 am
by Minimalist
Cooking kills parasites, bacteria and fungal infections Dan.
Which reminds me of the first time my wife and I went to Jamaica in the mid 80-s. It was one of those All-Inclusive Resorts and they had a great spread in a pavillion on the beach every breakfast and lunch...and "Tea Time" for the Brits. The Americans avoided that in droves, but I digress.
Anyway, my wife would graze on the fresh fruits and veggies they had laid out while I got on line for fried eggs/bacon or omelettes every morning. She told me I should "eat better." Guess which one of us got sick? When we got home she had to go to the doctor, told him where she'd been and he said "Oh, you've got an intestinal parasite.....comes from eating raw food in that climate." She was on antibiotics for weeks.
I felt fine.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:06 am
by Digit
I felt fine.
The dog house was comfortable I take it?
Roy.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:37 am
by Minimalist
Exceedingly.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:49 am
by Digit
I think this will amuse you, (off topic) a chap used The Titanic was built by experts- the Ark was built by an amateur.
I said, But what a designer!
He's pissed off with me, sense of humour failure I suspect, so I replied, The designer was Ok, but the pilot wasn't too hot, he ran into a mountain!
He's not amused!
Roy.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:56 pm
by War Arrow
Minimalist wrote:
Cooking kills parasites, bacteria and fungal infections Dan.
Which reminds me of the first time my wife and I went to Jamaica in the mid 80-s. It was one of those All-Inclusive Resorts and they had a great spread in a pavillion on the beach every breakfast and lunch...and "Tea Time" for the Brits. The Americans avoided that in droves, but I digress.
Anyway, my wife would graze on the fresh fruits and veggies they had laid out while I got on line for fried eggs/bacon or omelettes every morning. She told me I should "eat better." Guess which one of us got sick? When we got home she had to go to the doctor, told him where she'd been and he said "Oh, you've got an intestinal parasite.....comes from eating raw food in that climate." She was on antibiotics for weeks.
I felt fine.
Sigh.
I know this is just more anecdotal stuff, but I've definitely noticed this pattern. For the twenty years during which I lived in London I smoked, drank (well, not to excess admittedly), ate a regular bacon, sausage, eggs type breakfast, and spent much of my spare time pointing and laughing at vegetarians for kicks... well not really, but I got kind of tired of people lecturing me about my lifestyle as they chugged their vitamin pills and ate their broccoli and caught one cold after another (I think I've been ill about twice in my life with colds or flu), the big difference being that (and there's no way to say this without sounding somewhat strident) I
worked for a living and had little choice about whether or not I took exercise as my job was very physical. I've now packed in that job but I've taken up cycling to compensate, and given up the cigarettes (and I never drank that much).
In my experience, the more folks tend to obsess over their health, the unhealthier they tend to be.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:30 pm
by Digit
Auberon Waugh wrote, ' No diet is worth a couple of extra years in a nursing home in Weston-Super-Mare,' WA.
Roy.
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:14 pm
by Minimalist
If I take care of myself from this point on, by exercising and eating right, I'll eventually get very sick and die.
- Rodney Dangerfield
Re: Homo Erectus - The Galloping Gourmet
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:34 pm
by Digit
I've been shot twice, stabbed once and buried by bomb blast, careful eating didn't help one little bit!
The luck of the draw I reckon.
Roy.