Archaeologica.org

Hi Kalopin -

"Rent" is the past of the biblical/OE "rend", "to tear open". "He rent his garments"

I don't like being the one to disabuse you of your "find", but the amount of time geologists have to look at impact structures is limited. I wish you had an impact, but IMO you do not.

What you do have is an interesting account from Vicksburg (Walnut Hills) of First Peoples-colonist interaction there, and some very loose information on the extent of the New Madrid Quake. I wonder who it was who visited Vicksburg, and where their "Smoking Mountain" was.

Once again, from what I know there were no "recent" ( for the last 13,000 years) impacts in that area.

But that is just my opnion based on what I know, inluding something of the archaeological sequence in the area.

But I have been wrong before, so please feel free to seek the opinions of others.

(Baillie and I correspond occassionally.)

causing 1816-'The Year without a Summer"

Meaning that it took 5 years? This is not the scenario that doomsday impact scenario proponents usually put forward. The effect of a comet/asteroid strike is usually immediate.

E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Kalopin -

"Rent" is the past of the biblical/OE "rend", "to tear open". "He rent his garments"

I don't like being the one to disabuse you of your "find", but the amount of time geologists have to look at impact structures is limited. I wish you had an impact, but IMO you do not.

What you do have is an interesting account from Vicksburg (Walnut Hills) of First Peoples-colonist interaction there, and some very loose information on the extent of the New Madrid Quake. I wonder who it was who visited Vicksburg, and where their "Smoking Mountain" was.

Once again, from what I know there were no "recent" ( for the last 13,000 years) impacts in that area.

But that is just my opnion based on what I know, inluding something of the archaeological sequence in the area.

But I have been wrong before, so please feel free to seek the opinions of others.

(Baillie and I correspond occassionally.)

So, "rent to its base" means it was torn open to the ground?
You state- "from what I know"? That is why I ask you to give this study. There were two volcanoes in Mississippi. One was nicknamed "Burning Mountain" which is now known as "The Jackson Dome" [coliseum sits on top of] and the other is nicknamed "Midnight" [a smaller one in Humphreys County]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Volcano

Can you please answer a few questions concerning their existence?
1. Why is it not considered a "Caldera" as Yellowstone, but just accepted that there were standing volcanoes?
2. Why does no one ever consider that there may have once been volcanoes at Yellowstone?
3. Why did the natives have nicknames for them [that still exist today]?
4. Who discovered them and how, [in 1819 or was it 1860 there are conflicting dates!] with no ground-penetrating radar and no geologists?
5. Why is it known that "The Jackson Dome" once sat on an island named "Jackson Island" [named for Andrew Jackson]?
6. Why was it reported that "Burning Mountain" had been rent to its base?
7. What do you believe to be the truths?

P.S. I am sure that Mike Baillie knows I am correct!
P.S.S. Have you had a chance to study the photos of the few rocks pictured at:
http://koolkreations.wix.com/kalopins-legacy ?!

Minimalist wrote:

causing 1816-'The Year without a Summer"

Meaning that it took 5 years? This is not the scenario that doomsday impact scenario proponents usually put forward. The effect of a comet/asteroid strike is usually immediate.

No, it didn't take five years. The temperature dropped when the impacts occurred. It lasted at least that long due to all the effects to the weather and it caused major tectonic movement producing earthquakes and eruptions that further affected the climate. All this plate movement eventually caused a major eruption in 1814 with Mt. Mayon in the Phillippines and 1815 eruption of Mt. Tambora, Indonesia: http://www.pdc.org/iweb/volcano_deadliest.jsp

This is what Dr. Baillie and many others are trying to explain. It is registered within the tree rings as well as the geology. It has been theorized for as long as man has encountered comets. They can cause severe environmental downturns. It is my belief that comets, even with no impacts, can push cosmic rays, charged particles on pressure waves causing vibrations within tectonic plates...

The scenario that impact proponents put forward is that the dust and smoke arise immediately from the impact and block the sunlight which causes rapid temperature drop. As the dust settles the sunlight returns and temperatures rise.

I just don't get the delayed reaction.

Minimalist wrote:The scenario that impact proponents put forward is that the dust and smoke arise immediately from the impact and block the sunlight which causes rapid temperature drop. As the dust settles the sunlight returns and temperatures rise.

I just don't get the delayed reaction.

What delayed reaction? 1811 was recorded as one of the coldest winters on record, it just stayed cold throughout several summers for years and was worsened by further eruptions. Although many catastrophic events have occurred during the time of close passing comets, even without impacts. But, apparently good for the wine...

You will probably find many to say that comets can not cause any of this, but they should study further. Space is not empty, it is full of cosmic rays, pressures and vacuums, massive amounts of charged particles travelling on pressure waves. When they are disrupted by an outside force, it sends out waves of pressures and vacuums in different directions, maybe similar to a wake from a boat, and can cause disturbances when coming in contact with close planetary bodies. In our planet's case, with a molten layer, liquid water, and having plate tectonics, this can send out vibrations causing earthquakes, such as how thermo-acoustic refrigeration works. There were several to study this phenomenon with Comet Elenin. It was interesting to see the reaction from the Chelyabinsk meteor. The shockwave first produced weightlessness.

There are many inconsistancies concerning the topography of the Mississippi embayment. One read says all the land in the valley was affected and many rivers and streams were changed completely. Then another site will say how old the topography is saying the rivers are ancient, even to The Cretacious. There is no one to say how The Tennessee River ended up having to travel so far northward, away from the equator. If you study, you will see where The Tennessee River met at New Madrid, Mo., right where Reelfoot Lake is, and it is easy to see how far The Mississippi River was pushed to the northwest, as the old riverbed is quite visible.

I do not really expect answers for the previous questions. I want to try to further this research and find out all the particulars currently so vague.
Lately I have been searching for the original accounts of who, when, and where the statements were first made that everyone saw the comet as fifty percent larger than the Sun in October 1811. I believe that at this time it was in the southern hemisphere, right before Herschel got it back in view?

I feel sure that the more this is studied the more overwhelming the evidence becomes. The impactites are "the smoking gun", the strongest evidence. Once they find the study that, I feel, they deserve, then it will put this puzzle together.

The early 19th century was still part of the Little Ice Age which had been going on for centuries. Napoleon's army froze to death in Russia in 1812. There are records of Swiss villages being destroyed by advancing glaciers in the late 18th century. This was not news.

kalopin -

I can assured you that Baillie would be upset to hear you claiming that he supports you, little less that he has even read your "magnum opus".

The passage from Vicksburg on the "smoking mountain" refers to it begin along the Wichita River, and not in the state of Mississippi.

I am interested in any thermal springs used by the First Peoples, including the two in Mississippi you mentioned, and their "lore".

As to whether there is an ancient impact caused magma plume deep under Mississippi, I can not say, as deep geology is not my field of expertise.

Throwing in the Thunderdolts' Electric Universe "physics" does nothing to improve your argument, nor does showing images of schlieren structures from the Chesapeake Bay impact.

Generally, impact specialists have had to move to private off line discussion.
That being the case, I suggest you contact Dennis Cox about your finds.

Minimalist wrote:The early 19th century was still part of the Little Ice Age which had been going on for centuries. Napoleon's army froze to death in Russia in 1812. There are records of Swiss villages being destroyed by advancing glaciers in the late 18th century. This was not news.

Yes, and the comet made "The Little Ice Age" much worse. That is why C/1811 F1 is also known as "Napolean's Comet". Througout Europe and Russia everyone considered the comet to be Napolean's demise. Is this news to you? If you would just read the article entitled "A Few Comments on 1811"?

E.P. Grondine wrote:kalopin -

I can assured you that Baillie would be upset to hear you claiming that he supports you, little less that he has even read your "magnum opus".

The passage from Vicksburg on the "smoking mountain" refers to it begin along the Wichita River, and not in the state of Mississippi.

I am interested in any thermal springs used by the First Peoples, including the two in Mississippi you mentioned, and their "lore".

As to whether there is an ancient impact caused magma plume deep under Mississippi, I can not say, as deep geology is not my field of expertise.

Throwing in the Thunderdolts' Electric Universe "physics" does nothing to improve your argument, nor does showing images of schlieren structures from the Chesapeake Bay impact.

Generally, impact specialists have had to move to private off line discussion.
That being the case, I suggest you contact Dennis Cox about your finds.

E.P.

Please do us a favor and read up on some history: http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/washitaw.htm . 1811 was before "The Trail of Tears". Wichita is a Choctaw word that means "big Arbor' not because of grass switches! but because of the massive trees that were petrified, instantly by cometary material during a log jam directly after impact and not 36 million years ago!

The Washitaw Valley runs through the middle of the state of Mississippi. There was no Kansas at this time! It is my belief that The Wichita River is now The Pearl River, renamed by French Explorer de'Iberville, because he found so many oysters at the original mouth. When the Choctaw, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Wichita,... and many other tribes were sent west during "The Indian Removal Act", they took many of the names with them. The Washita people lived in Central Mississippi and are considered to be the oldest indigenous tribe that exists today.

Much of this, I feel sure, was done on purpose to hide the fact that "Jackson Island" along with Andrew Jackson's Volcano was destroyed by Tecumseh 'stomping his foot', embarrassing Jackson! Mark Twain wrote of another "Jackson Island" near Missouri on the Mississippi River. You will have to really study all this to see how much has been disorted, confused, purposely hidden and lost mostly because of the primitive times, fears, superstitions, religous beliefs, conflicts all played a role in hiding these events. What really happened is so much more fascinating than what people want to believe!

So, no you're not in Kansas, yet! [click your heels?!]

Chesapeake Bay impact images? You must mean Kgagodi Crater in Botswana Africa. The only other crater found to be in a river valley and was only found by accident when drilling for a mining expedition?
Could you ask Dr. Baillie to give this research his study? Maybe we could get his insight?

P.S. The physics are correct, cosmic rays pull out photons! [unless, you got a mechanism that can push a massless object?]

P.S.S. If they were actually impact specialists" they would engage, read, study, find all the facts before any determination, not hide...

Please read the article entitled "A Few Comments on 1811", thanks...

oh C***t. Prayers to M'si Manito as well.

The "Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah Muur Empire" thrown in as well, kalopin?.

(Those of you who have read my piece on the late Richard Kieninger will know all about them.)

While I am interested in Vicksburg, Mr. Vick and the First Peoples, hot springs in Mississippi and along the Wichita River, and old names for the Pearl River, I am sorry, but IMO your "great insight" into impacts is seriously mistaken.

But that is just my opinion. I was serious in suggesting to you that you contact Dennis Cox.
Immediately, for that matter.

Or try to contact Mark Boslough.
Or David Morrison.

E.P. Grondine wrote:oh C***t. Prayers to M'si Manito as well.

The "Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah Muur Empire" thrown in as well, kalopin?.

(Those of you who have read my piece on the late Richard Kieninger will know all about them.)

While I am interested in Vicksburg, Mr. Vick and the First Peoples, hot springs in Mississippi and along the Wichita River, and old names for the Pearl River, I am sorry, but IMO your "great insight" into impacts is seriously mistaken.

But that is just my opinion. I was serious in suggesting to you that you contact Dennis Cox.
Immediately, for that matter.

Or try to contact Mark Boslough.
Or David Morrison.

Yea, don't feel bad, although I have had several to say this research does have merit, I have contacted many that have little or no interest in finding the truth-my opinion. I am not sure of Mark Boslough's opinion, I don't believe I've spoken with Dennis Cox, David Morrison doesn't believe there was an impact. Dallas Abbott [HIWG] says the structure is not round enough, although if this same projectile had impacted on the ocean, she may only find chevrons from a tsunami from that as well? Jay Melosh, Roy van Arsdale, Susan Hough, Gary Patterson, Beatrice Magnani,...the list goes on. I have great respect for all of their work, but regardless of any opinions, this impact occurred, and there is overwhelming proof. Just study the rocks, satellite views, original accounts, newspaper articles, immediate topography, tree ring data, and then get a LiDAR, microscopes, spectrometers, core samples, test for iridium,... then tell me!

The satellite view does not lie. The lines all point to this structure. There is no doubt that it is the center of the shockwave pattern. A pattern that has been found could not have been formed from a deep fault. Seismic waves from an earthquake do not propagate surface waves! Study closely each line. Take out the erosion and development. You will see all the little semi-circular fractures surrounding this concave structure. Now it is time for me to assure you- This was a major impact forgotten and lost until now!

Should I apologize for my Gnosisosis?

The comet did not hit the earth.

Minimalist wrote:The comet did not hit the earth.

kalopin, a comet may have hit, but IMO in this case at best it was a very very ancient impact.
This is not bad news, as since oil pools in impact fractures, you may have stumbled into a way to wildcat the area.

Large numbers of people would have died if this was a recent impact.
Not only did no one remember that, the archaeological record shows that this did not happen within the last 13,000 years.

I was serious when I suggested to you to contact Dennis Cox, Mark Boslough, and David Morrison.
You might want to contact some of your local geologists as well.
If you took a course from them or audited one, they would have to look at your features and help you out with them.

kalopin, I am sorry, but I am simply too busy with my own work to do any work on your hypothesis, including commenting on it here.

Minimalist wrote:The comet did not hit the earth.

No the entire comet did not impact. It was a piece from the dust tail after travelling around the Sun, as C/1811 F1 was a Sungrazer and was slung out at a much higher rate of velocity. The heat and speed broke the outer shell into many meteoroids and asteroids, mostly consisting of the ice and sand that the comet had picked up while travelling through our solar-system. As the comet was seen passing by our planet, the Earth travelled through a taurid meteor storm, causing a serial impact and the catastrophic events that have been recorded. What would be your mechanism for so many catastrophes at once [coincidence?]?