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It may take a while, but in science data always wins in the end.

There may be casualties along the way, but in the end, data always wins.

Tom, if a recent impact had of been related in any way to the New Madrid earthquake,
I would have found it and published it 15 years ago.

As far as the debate over man effect's on the environment, when W. vetoed the Kyoto Accords,
he promised science would be fully funded to better determine the models.

The TOMS ozone data set has not been kept up.

As Phillip K. Dick put it, reality (the data) is what will not go away when you want it to.
In this particular case, ozone is still varying.
We will be affected by the results.

As I mentioned before, there may be casualties along the way,
but in the end
THE DATA ALWAYS WINS.

I suspect that the people who pay the most to interpret the data win...at least in the short-run, E.P.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/clim ... oleum-pac/

[img]Climate%20change%20skeptic%20Inhofe%20is%20big%20recipent%20of%20funds%20from%20British%20Petroleum%20PAC[/img]

We have the worst government that money can buy.

Minimalist wrote: I suspect that the people who pay the most to interpret the data win...at least in the short-run, E.P.

Working in the new field of historical and proto historical impact events, one acquires a really good understanding about how science works and does not work in our new age.
While the progress of science can be impeded, in the end the data always wins.

its just question of casualties along the way.

Minimalist wrote: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/clim ... oleum-pac/

[img]Climate%20change%20skeptic%20Inhofe%20is%20big%20recipent%20of%20funds%20from%20British%20Petroleum%20PAC[/img]

We have the worst government that money can buy.

The result of the neo-con's machinations kind of reminds me of the Russian oligarchy.
Christ, those guys went after Lugar in Indiana.
It is little wonder that many old line GOP members are leaving it.
Myself, "I Like Ike", and am aggressively middle of the road.
As the younger generation does not read, it would be nice to have more documentaries and biopics made about his career.

Impactors do not care what your political affiliation is, nor what system o government you live under.
Nor your race. Nor your religion.

Currently, the Asteroid Retrieval Mission is NASA's central mission,nd it has been supported on a bi-partisan basis.
With a budget of 17-18 Billion per year, the politics of science are quite intense.

The real NASA battle is going to be about building the Comet and Asteroid Protection System.
That will be true not only here but internationally.

I will refuse to be involved in the AGW debate, other than to note that we need the ozone data for the sat gap to be converted into TOMS maps,
and to note tht the value of TOMS fr exceeds that of any probe to Europa. Given the very low cost of TOMS, this is a no brainer.


As I mentioned before, in the end the data always wins.
It is simply a question of the casualties along the way.

its just question of casualties along the way.

An interesting turn of phrase, E.P.

But, this is about marketing...not science.

Minimalist wrote:

its just question of casualties along the way.

An interesting turn of phrase, E.P.

But, this is about marketing...not science.

Hi min -

Progress in science is dependent upon funding.

$18.5 billion for NASA's entire budget, only a small percentage will go toward planetary defense...
$585 billion to the military... [for, you know...]

I wish to share your optimism, though so much data has been lost, never to be recovered, by a systematic, idealogical destruction of writings and artifacts, along with deliberate and blatant interference from many governments and religious sects...
...just take the libraries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_de ... _libraries ...and see the main cause... {"...lies of the devil..."]

Nope, very little interest in finding the truth and plenty for self gratification...

...but you are correct that celestial mechanics do not care what human activity may consist of:
http://www.universetoday.com/119379/don ... e-century/ [3rd 'blood moon']
[...if only for ten righteous...]

...the 'casualties along the way' may well be the extinction of the human race..."IF"

...but [maybe?] we should all be content to know you are one of the few that has been shown this amount of knowledge and accept your wisdom..., understanding the selfishness and ignorance of the majority as just quite comical, in knowing their position has given them a 'self-verdict' of guilt, in the destruction of their own future lineage. [...any anger should give way to pity...]
[ For those with the understanding- there will be a considerable amount more... ;-]

[Maybe I should try harder to convince academia of the truths, though it is the responsibility of academics to investigate?]

Kalopin wrote:$18.5 billion for NASA's entire budget, only a small percentage will go toward planetary defense...
$585 billion to the military... [for, you know...]

I wish to share your optimism, though so much data has been lost, never to be recovered, by a systematic, idealogical destruction of writings and artifacts, along with deliberate and blatant interference from many governments and religious sects...
...just take the libraries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_de ... _libraries ...and see the main cause... {"...lies of the devil..."]

Nope, very little interest in finding the truth and plenty for self gratification...

...but you are correct that celestial mechanics do not care what human activity may consist of:
http://www.universetoday.com/119379/don ... e-century/ [3rd 'blood moon']
[...if only for ten righteous...]

...the 'casualties along the way' may well be the extinction of the human race..."IF"

...but [maybe?] we should all be content to know you are one of the few that has been shown this amount of knowledge and accept your wisdom..., understanding the selfishness and ignorance of the majority as just quite comical, in knowing their position has given them a 'self-verdict' of guilt, in the destruction of their own future lineage. [...any anger should give way to pity...]
[ For those with the understanding- there will be a considerable amount more... ;-]

[Maybe I should try harder to convince academia of the truths, though it is the responsibility of academics to investigate?]

[for Plato]- the ruins of Atlantis are scattered from Xibalba to out passed the Bimini road...
"...beyond the pillars of Hercules...and within the ocean of Atlas..."

[...but will this be understood? -knowledge is only obtained through study-will you?]
so- winds of madness to showers of foolishness? ;-]

Progress in science is dependent upon funding.

Progress in science has frequently been made by un-funded individuals who manage to see (and articulate) connections that are in front of their (and everybody else's) faces.

Depressingly often, they're either marginal figures or outcasts, because "the best authorities" are committed to defending defective models. The war against them (and their discoveries) continues as we speak.

Case in point : Egyptian Antiquity. Read The Message of the Sphinx and decide whether the entire field is collectively mentally ill. Or The Secret Life of Plants. Or The Cosmic Pulse of Life.

Hi kalopin, uni -

Both of you need a lesson as to how science progresses.

First, you start with what is known, in other words explained by the current paradigm.

You then look at the residuals, and see if they form any pattern.

You then revise the paradigm.

In terms of impact research, both of you are more noise than signal.
kalopin, once again, no impact is related to the New Madrid Earthquake.
Uni, Velikovsky was simply a kook who offered biblical literalists a straw they could hold onto.
His "physics" was junk.
There are a few individuals who work with competence with ancient Near Eastern astronomical texts, and the people you point to here are not among them.

Velikovsky was simply a kook who offered biblical literalists a straw they could hold onto.

You have to admit, E.P. that they like that.

E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi kalopin, uni -

Both of you need a lesson as to how science progresses.

First, you start with what is known, in other words explained by the current paradigm.

You then look at the residuals, and see if they form any pattern.

You then revise the paradigm.

In terms of impact research, both of you are more noise than signal.
kalopin, once again, no impact is related to the New Madrid Earthquake.
Uni, Velikovsky was simply a kook who offered biblical literalists a straw they could hold onto.
His "physics" was junk.
There are a few individuals who work with competence with ancient Near Eastern astronomical texts, and the people you point to here are not among them.

really do not have to look very far to see what is wrong with the progression of science?

E.P. "what is known" concerning the December 16, 1811 event is that every single detail describes a meteor impact...and, [if you were to actually investigate,] you will see the satellite view concurs, as every single line in the topography surrounds this central location, in northeastern Marshall county, Mississippi. [...and anyone with enough knowledge in stratigraphy can easily see this [and has!].]
...every detail within the recorded accounts backs this hypothesis. hundreds of impactites, in all forms, have been found in several nearby spherule beds...and the two man-made objects, a horseshoe and wagon-wheel endcap covered in vitrified sand and impact melt rock, are more than enough to give proof to these scenarios. [as these two objects could have been formed by NO other means. [...and why can you not comprehend this?]

The problem lies within understanding the information. the satellite views are obvious [to me] and the artifacts are proof,[ just because this has not been understood...]
so, do you not yet see the' pattern' within the 'residuals'?
E.P.- once again- the New Madrid earthquakes were not caused by tectonic activity. so-"you then revise the paradigm"- sounds simple.
so, how do you get people, such as yourself to actually investigate the findings that give proof to a meteor impact on Dec. 16, 1811?
...and how do you get them to 'revise the paradigm' if they won't even investigate?
...sorry that you did not see this fifteen years ago, and that it was me who discovered this fifteen years ago... Maybe the truth did hit a speedbump when it found me as an advocate, but-no doubt- I will stand with the truth...and now I have found others that understand this research and who are willing to help...so you can join in this attempt to correct the past, or you can continue to [postulate arrogance] believe lies...and remain within delusion.

no, we see plenty well "how science progresses' ...and that is what this is about- how badly science does not progress and who the instigators are at controlling new evidence and the information that is already available to correct science and history [...and allow teachers to more accurately inform students of what is reality and what has been distorted beliefs in the past...]

[...and, as far as the Holocene impact event...-]
How is it difficult to understand that 13kya years ago, more than ten million tons of impact spherules were deposited over four continents...and there could not have been an ocean between?
How difficult is it to understand that these spherules form at way too high temperatures to be any serial impact or airburst?
so, How difficult is it to understand that this information has been researched and verified by many highly recognized scientists ...and that this proves a Lunar impact to the Mediterranean sea to end the Pleistocene?

I can not make you understand, you will have to investigate every single detail...and I am asking you to let me know of ANY evidence to the contrary... [uh, your faulty dating and flawed physics are not evidence...and are not even reality, this has been proven! [Princeton-Chicxulub...],so stop promoting nonsense, please!]

I am hoping you will take the initiative and give all this a good study [this time]. There is more than enough evidence already available...and just because there are some to want to purposely hide these truths, there is little doubt that this will all [eventually] be recognized- although, I had no idea it would be this difficult to make this change, but then again, I thought for such a long time that society in general had more intelligence-these past five years or so have given me more insight into who the 'human' is...and, what will become of this creature...

to all- investigate science, history and present beliefs for yourself, do not believe anything until you have verified the information yourself, ...and then you will truly be a scientist!
to those who understand my research- thanks for your insight and all the help, the past must be corrected to understand the future and to not repeat and you see how important you all are and, as you can see, how badly this evidence needs your help to be understood and to become common knowledge...
I know that together we can do this, Thanks! :-]

Uni, Velikovsky was simply a kook who offered biblical literalists a straw they could hold onto.
His "physics" was junk.

The number of correct predictions he made (predictions that completely contradicted the "assured certainties" of that era) refutes you.

But you'd have to know what he predicted to see that.

Even a charlatan, if he makes enough 'predictions' will have a small percentage appear to 'come true'. It's called the shotgun approach...

Case in point: Edgar Cayce.

Oops!

One of your heroes uni?

Arguments from ignorance, appealing to substitute some pre-existing belief for even minimal familiarity with relevant facts are not discussion.

They are preaching.

You knew virtually nothing about Cayce when you wrote that post. If you had, you could not have written what you did. (Either that or you're an ideologically-driven liar) (lots of that in the media today -- so much so it passes for Reality in many quarters) ("science" included) (see Everything Else forum).

Kalopin wrote:E.P. "what is known" concerning the December 16, 1811 event is that every single detail describes a meteor impact...and, [if you were to actually investigate,] you will see the satellite view concurs, as every single line in the topography surrounds this central location, in northeastern Marshall county, Mississippi. [...and anyone with enough knowledge in stratigraphy can easily see this [and has!].]

Well, i just took a look at the topographic map of northeastern Marshall county, Mississippi and every line in the topography clearly follows the rivers and creeks. What central location do you see?

http://www.trails.com/usgs-topo-chewall ... 95687.html