Abram/Abraham/Ram/Brahma

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:43 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman_(disambiguation)

And then there's Wikipedia

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:52 pm

You think so, huh? Here's another bible thumper who has problems with Kitchen's methods. I thought you guys weren't allowed to fight among yourselves? Jesus doesn't like that or something

well since you didn't give a name i will let this pass. your definition of Bible thumper is too inclusive and non-sophisticated.

All of this is largely irrelevant though since Kitchen is out of touch with the current reality of archaeology which has Israel arising in Canaan at the end of the LBA.

ha ha ha. your preaching of this doesn't make it any truer than when you first said it.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:56 pm

Not about the bible Arch - but Abraham/Brahma. They were the same guy.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:09 pm

archaeologist wrote:
You think so, huh? Here's another bible thumper who has problems with Kitchen's methods. I thought you guys weren't allowed to fight among yourselves? Jesus doesn't like that or something
well since you didn't give a name i will let this pass. your definition of Bible thumper is too inclusive and non-sophisticated.

All of this is largely irrelevant though since Kitchen is out of touch with the current reality of archaeology which has Israel arising in Canaan at the end of the LBA.
ha ha ha. your preaching of this doesn't make it any truer than when you first said it.

There was a link that you could have clicked on.....but that would be out of character for you.

Your little gods have to be infallible, don't they?

Too bad your's is such a loser when it comes to history and geography!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:14 pm

There was a link that you could have clicked on

there was no link, you put it in quotes not wrapped in urls.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:17 pm

They were the same guy.

not the same person from what i read and i would like to know what translation of the Bible the person is using as india was never mentioned in scriptures.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 pm

archaeologist wrote:
There was a link that you could have clicked on
there was no link, you put it in quotes not wrapped in urls.

And you couldn't figure it out?

Cut and paste doesn't work in Korea.....or were you just afraid to see your little tin god criticized for his non-scholarly behavior?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:26 pm

i am just not catering to your laziness

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:29 pm

Only your own.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:52 pm

Only your own.

when you are ready to act like an adult let me know.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:11 am

please tell the whole story

Despite the criticisms I have made here, I do not think Kitchen’s work is either poor, wrong in many cases, or unnecessary. He is a better Egyptologist than biblical scholar, and he is actually cute sometimes, if one can avoid the stinger that always lurks inside his attempts at humor. In this, he rather reminds me of the biblical Joab, whose defense of David was always constant, even when it was not always particularly helpful. The value of Kitchen’s work is his dogged insistence upon a reading of relevant texts and an assessment of relevant archaeological recoveries as the appropriate context in which to read OT narratives. And it is precisely here that minimalists must be challenged to respond. They have called for dependence upon extra-biblical evidence, and Kitchen marshals an impressive amount of just such evidence for their assessment. Should his minimalist opponents fail to answer the specific evidence Kitchen has brought forward, we shall be forced to conclude that they cannot. Their responses are much to be anticipated. In the meantime, the work done by a vast majority of scholars of the Hebrew Bible will continue to be somewhere in the middle between the "Lion of Liverpool" snarling on the right and the "Hounds of Copenhagen" growling on the left.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:45 am

Tsk Tsk

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:58 am

I told you he was another bible thumper with criticisms of Kitchen's ideas. How much more information can your tiny brain handle?

Essan · Post by **Essan** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:15 am

Hmmm, is it not possible that both the Judaic Abraham and the Hindu Brahma are based on a similar, much earlier story?

As far as the original linked article goes:-

About 1900 BC, the cult of Brahm was carried to the Middle and Near East by several different Indian groups after a severe rainfall and earthquake tore Northern India apart, even changing the courses of the Indus and Saraisvati rivers

I'd like to see refernece for this. 1900BC is a bit too recent for me, so I couldn't say off hand whether there is evidence for such events.

Indian historian Kuttikhat Purushothama Chon believes that Abraham was driven out of India. He states that the Aryans, unable to defeat the Asuras (The mercantile caste that once ruled in the Indus Valley or Harappans) spent so many years fighting covertly against the Asuras, such as destroying their huge system of irrigation lakes, causing destructive flooding, that Abraham and his kindred just gave up and marched to West Asia. (See Remedy the Frauds in Hinduism.) Therefore, besides being driven out of Northern India by floods, the Aryans also forced Indian merchants, artisans, and educated classes to flee to West Asia.

It's generally accepted now that there was no Aryan invasion of India. Besides which, I thought it was drought, not floods which drove them out ...

Atm I find the argument for a Hindu origin for Abraham unlikley. Though a common origin for both Abraham and Brahma is possible?

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:00 am

I tend to agree with Essan. I couldn't find the articles I bookmarked for Abram as Brahma. But I did find the link about the Aryan invasion. Can't vouch for any of it but some of it makes sense to me
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifa ... -myth.html

But as I have said before:
Doodle doodle dee, wubba wubba wubba. (at least til I'm off the meds)