The Exodus Decoded

[Guest]

Hypocritical, on your part.

not at all. i haven't come to any conclusions on either the palace or the alter, though i lean in support of the contentions.

A lousy example

too close to home, huh.

A search on Google for "the Jewish Histories" turned up nothing. More of your pious fiction

i didn't give the true title as i don't remember it off hand, i have to wait till get home to look it up.

The documentary hypothesis at least gives "god" a little cover because his human editors were morons.

talk about hanging on like a bulldog---i have already explained about the seemingly contradictions but secular people just can't let it go, can they.

[bandit]

If I could interject a question here gentlemen, what are you referring to with J, E, P, D?

I have been trying to find a post that indicates their meaning with no luck. If it's a stupid inquiry, apologies extended, but I am not up on all these abbreviations yet.

[Minimalist]

Sorry. You're right.

Scholars (not people like Arch, but real scholars) have detected 4 specific sources for various bible stories.

J = the Yahweh (Jahvist in German) school which was in the southern kingdom of Judah. References to god there were to Yahweh.

E = Elohim, the name of choice for god in the northern kingdom of Israel.

P = Priestly source. Generally very late, after the Babyonian exile, with a fanatic devotion to ritual and such.

D = D - the Deuteronomist. D consists of most of Deuteronomy. D probably also wrote the Deuteronomistic history which looks for territorial expansion based on alleged past conquests and promises from 'god.'

[Guest]

hate to tell you but i studied J,E P & D while obtaining my theological degree. those 'scholars' are those who cannot accept the Bible as written by Moses alone, though he had the education to do so. (you wil note that minimalist uses the general term 'scholars' to imply that the belief is widespread , which isn't the case.)

they are the ones also who claim that the jewish people couldn't read or write till long after the events recorded had past. they will say or do anything to discredit the Bible even when they cannot prove their assertions.

hoffmeier has caught finkelstein doing this in his book, 'israel in egypt'.

*** as alluded to above, this is a favorite game of minimalist...he loves to word things in a manner that makes people think an idea or conclusion is accepted by all or that the fact has been proven when it is quite the opposite. a little research, tends to right things and provide a true picture.

[bandit]

Thank you Minimalist, now it will be a little easier to follow the references. Not that I can contribute since I know nothing of anyones bible, I've learned more in the last few weeks than in 40 + years of existance.

The whole religion thing never struck a cord with me so I pretty much ignored it. I'm beginning to think that may have been a mistake.

[bandit]

You see, this just goes to show the extent of my ignorance on this subject. It has been my understanding the the bible was a collection of stories written by different people, not just one. Hence the book of this guy, the book of the next guy, and even a nostradamus type thrown in there.

[Guest]

If I could interject a question here gentlemen, what are you referring to with J, E, P, D?

I have been trying to find a post that indicates their meaning with no luck. If it's a stupid inquiry, apologies extended, but I am not up on all these abbreviations yet.

Your Search-Fu is weak . . . WEAK!!!

For I posted a description with more [Pretentious pontification--Ed.] detail than Minimalist . . . heh! Heh! "Minimalist" posts the more succinct description!

The two nice references are from Friedman: Who Wrote the Bible? and The Bible with the Sources Revealed. Searcheth those with Mine Own Glorious Name and you shall find enlightenment, happiness, and . . . stuff.

The WWtB is a nice easy read, inexpensive. Contrary to archaeologist's legion unsupported claims, it is the standard view of the creation of the Pentateuch. The controversy exists over dating of the texts.

--J.D.

[Guest]

hate to tell you

Then why tell us?

but i studied J,E P & D while obtaining my theological degree.

Evidence to the contrary given you lack any knowledge of the theory. As for your "theological degree:"

Vehicle: We are seeking scientists!!

Man: I have a degree in homeopathy!

Vehicle: Blasting man with a water canon YOU HAVE A DEGREE IN BALONEY!!

--Futurama

those 'scholars'

Note the argumentum ad hominem with a dash of Poisoning of the Well. He believes by placing quotation marks around the word "scholars" this will, somehow, diminish over two hundred years of biblical scholarship.

Yet, why does he not present a counter-theory that accounts for the evidence?

Curious.

The Journal of Biblical Literature would jump at the chance to publish such.

. . . are those who cannot accept the Bible as written by Moses alone, . . .

Given the contradictions, given the fact it alternatively elevates and attacks Moses, given it contains descriptions of his death {Maybe he was dictating?} Shhh! Et cetera ad nauseum.

Further willfully ignorant confession of faith follows.

--J.D.

[bandit]

Apologies good Dr.

Will try harder

Thanks for the refs..

[Guest]

Calls off the Hounds. . . .

In all seriousness if you can get both books, it will make your life easier--trying to follow J to P to E to J to . . . well it can get painful in a small bible. The problem with Friedman's translation is he preserves "theologically acceptable" translations in many places and appears unaware of textual criticism. That is not always a big deal, but one has to be careful.

--J.D.

[Minimalist]

Hypocritical, on your part.

not at all. i haven't come to any conclusions on either the palace or the alter, though i lean in support of the contentions.

I'm sure the whole science of archaeology is just holding its breath waiting for YOU to make up your mind!

A lousy example

too close to home, huh.

No. It was idiotic.

A search on Google for "the Jewish Histories" turned up nothing. More of your pious fiction

i didn't give the true title as i don't remember it off hand, i have to wait till get home to look it up.

Oh, I'm sure it will be good when you figure it out.

The documentary hypothesis at least gives "god" a little cover because his human editors were morons.

talk about hanging on like a bulldog---i have already explained about the seemingly contradictions but secular people just can't let it go, can they.

Yeah....what was it you said? Oh, right. THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS!! THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!!!

Very convincing as are most of your arguments.

[Guest]

I'm sure the whole science of archaeology is just holding its breath waiting for YOU to make up your mind

i am sure they are--haha

Yeah....what was it you said? Oh, right. THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS!! THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!!!

isn't that your famous way of saying things? if i recall correcting: 'there were no israelites', 'there was no moses', 'there was no exodus', 'they weren't in egypt' etc, etc. etc.

great discussion killers and wonderfully executed statements of refute. following the copenhagen school of denial just isn't good archaeology.

[Guest]

Will someone please remind the idiot that Finkelstein, Dever, and the Rest of the Legion of Doom are not part of the "Copenhagen School?"

Thanks.

--J.D.

[Minimalist]

To the Arch's of the world there are only two groups. Believers....best known by their incredible gullibility and UnBelievers. If you can't swallow the whole enchilada, as far as Arch and his ilk are concerned, they are all the same.

[Minimalist]

following the copenhagen school of denial just isn't good archaeology.

The Copenhagen School are not archaeologists.....of course, you wouldn't know that.