Archaeologica.org

“Ocean going canoes”
Why not call them ships?

I think I read that the difference between a ship and a boat is that a ship cannot be carried on another ship.

I must admit I was under the impression that Tulum rose to prominence much later - like 15th century, and there's a possible minor mystery of "clearly" central Mexican Gods (notably Huitzilopochtli) depicted in the frescos, according to (I think) George Kubler (again). Maybe my wires are crossed.
I gather trade routes were pretty impressive in those days, Central Mexican tombs containing offerings from as far afield as (possibly) Colombia and (in the other direction) getting on towards Arizona and Nevada - though obviously some of the more distantly originated objects were probably not acquired by one bloke who just really liked long walks. Anyway, my point (for what it may be worth) is that, trade and the gathering of exotic items was a pretty important consideration, so I'd be surprised if the use of boats was (in Tulum's case) only a minor part of it. I'm sure I remember an account of a large native boat encountered by Cortez prior to landing on Cozumel, but I can't find the reference so maybe I'm thinking of something in the diary of Colombus (don't presently have a copy). In any case, isn't it believed that the Taino populated Cuba from S. America via boats (obviously boats)?
Min - I heard that same boat/ship definition given on a radio programme over here.

I don’t remember on the Caribbean side, but I remember the Spaniards were impressed with the size and seaworthiness of what they called “rafts” on the Pacific side.

As far as the difference between a ship and a boat. I have heard that definition before. But it gets to be a relative thing. I doubt any of us would not consider the destroyer USS Cole a ship. But after the terrorist bombing in Yemen the U S Navy hired a Dutch Co to come pick it up and deliver it to New Orleans. They just used a bigger ship. (And went around the Cape.)

I expect it has to do with shape. Being skinny compared to length being a “canoe.” Being a square “floater” compared to a displacement hull a “raft.”

But I would suggest a definition based on purpose. Nowadays we have some pretty big “Pleasure Boats.” They can be longer then a coastal “trading ship.” If you are , or were, carrying cargo for profit on open water, you were on a ship. For sure if you used a sail.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/535748/

— Coaxing answers from 1500-year-old clues hidden in soil clumps, a team of archaeologists and environmental scientists identified a marketplace in an ancient Maya city, calling into question archaeologists’ widely held belief that people of the era relied on rulers to tax and re-distribute goods, rather than trading them with one another.

As reported in the December issue of Latin American Antiquity, Brigham Young University professor of environmental science Richard Terry and his student team helped confirm the location of a suspected marketplace on the Yucatan peninsula, giving Maya studies powerful new evidence for understanding the advanced civilization’s economy.

New study shows how Mayans had open markets as a system of food distribution - different from what had been thought.

http://www.exploremirador.com/index.html

Mirador, one of Central America’s treasures, lies in the north of Guatemala’s Petén region. The Mirador Archaeological and Wildlife Area, also known as Mirador, spans over 525,000 acres and is widely regarded as a cultural and biological jewel. The beauty and magnificence of Mirador’s pristine, virgin forest has attracted much international attention. The Guatemalan government is currently considering Mirador, one of the only intact cultural and natural sites of its size in the world, as a leading nomination for UNESCO World Heritage status. In 1998 Mirador was submitted to UNESCO’s Tentative List.

Located deep in the heart of the Maya Biosphere Reserve, the Mirador Archaeological and Wildlife Area is home to the earliest and largest Preclassic Maya sites in Mesoamerica. Ancient cities including El Mirador, Nakbe, Tintal, Wakna, and Xulnal are offering valuable information to the study of Maya society and culture. Leading experts now herald the Mirador area as being the Cradle of Maya Civilization.

This is a new one for me. This quote makes some pretty big claims. Nice web site with lots of pics.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... 3420080115

GUATEMALA CITY (Reuters) - Guatemala will create a tourist park at the ruins of an ancient Maya city that is home to one of the world's largest pyramids, the country's president said on Monday.

The Maya built soaring temples and elaborate palaces in Central America and southern Mexico before mysteriously abandoning their cities around 900 A.D.

Recently elected Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom said the park would give tourists access to the Mirador archaeological site, which contains hundreds of buildings that have been reclaimed by the Peten jungle in the north of the country.

"Among the structures is the world's most massive pyramid and I think it even beats the Egyptians by around a meter," Colom said.

Another article on Mirador. Opening soon to the public. "Beats the Egyptians...." ?

Zahi will be pissed!

I'll say. That's a lot to say to a reporter. Zahi will be there on the first bus with a tape measure.

If it's true, it changes the record books.

GUATEMALA CITY (Reuters) - Guatemala will create a tourist park at the ruins of an ancient Maya city that is home to one of the world's largest pyramids, the country's president said on Monday.

The Maya built soaring temples and elaborate palaces in Central America and southern Mexico before mysteriously abandoning their cities around 900 A.D.

Recently elected Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom said the park would give tourists access to the Mirador archaeological site, which contains hundreds of buildings that have been reclaimed by the Peten jungle in the north of the country.

"Among the structures is the world's most massive pyramid and I think it even beats the Egyptians by around a meter," Colom said.

Of course, bigger. It is Mexican!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080123/sc_ ... rAec0E1vAI

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The victims of human sacrifice by Mexico's ancient Mayans, who threw children into water-filled caverns, were likely boys and young men not virgin girls as previously believed, archeologists said on Tuesday.

The Maya built soaring temples and elaborate palaces in the jungles of Central America and southern Mexico before the Spanish conquest in the early 1500s.

Maya priests in the city of Chichen Itza in the Yucatan peninsula sacrificed children to petition the gods for rain and fertile fields by throwing them into sacred sinkhole caves, known as "cenotes."

A rough place to be a kid.

Beagle wrote:A rough place to be a kid.

Makes ya wonder. Did these kids consider it an honor to be thrown in a sink-hole? Did they think they were serving the greater good - not unlike some young suicide bomber (well...other than the fact that bombers are murderers as well)?

I don't know, but W/A may have the answer. I would think though, that at least the parents approved.

Forum Monk wrote:

Beagle wrote:A rough place to be a kid.

Makes ya wonder. Did these kids consider it an honor to be thrown in a sink-hole? Did they think they were serving the greater good - not unlike some young suicide bomber (well...other than the fact that bombers are murderers as well)?

Er... I'm unequipped with quotes right now but from what I can recall you're pretty much on the money. Well, maybe not an honour exactly (at least I'm not too sure anyone would be overjoyed to know they were about to be sacrificed) but when your entire understanding of the universe is based on the idea that its continued existence is maintained by sacrifice (this is one of those instances where it seems particularly difficult to imagine oneself in the ancient world) even those who aren't so keen to buy the farm will probably have a grudging understanding of why it might be necessary. I gather warriors though were a different kettle of fish and possibly would have unreservedly seen it as an honour. I think there's one account somewhere (probably one of the many books of the Florentine Codex I haven't got) claiming that if a warrior was captured in battle by an enemy town, if he managed to escape being sacrificed by the enemy then he could only return to his people in great shame. People being what they are, I somehow doubt these things were always quite so black and white as history seems to record but who knows?

Actually, I think most cultures have a legendary hero who sacrificed himself or a favorite child for the greater good.