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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:51 am
by Digit
I have agreat respect for oral traditions Monk, but of course it's just as easy to hand down an untruth as the truth.
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:59 am
by Forum Monk
Digit wrote:I have agreat respect for oral traditions Monk, but of course it's just as easy to hand down an untruth as the truth.
I agree - but these people believed it before any "modern" scientist devised the land bridge theory. You think they developed their own land bridge theory? Or, maybe they were making the trip by boat routinely for hundreds of years or longer? Why didn't they believe, the people on the other side, descended from them?
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:11 am
by Digit
I think the evidence is pretty conclusive that the NA came from Asia. The point I was making is that oral traditions can be wrong.
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:02 pm
by Beagle
http://www.walkermn.com/placed/index.ph ... _id=230142
Community members got answers Feb. 8 to some of their questions about the recently-discovered archaeological site near the Walker Area Community Center (WACC).
But answers to other questions — like what comes next and how to protect the site, will have to wait, at least for now.
As will the major question in everyone's mind: Do the artifacts actually date back to 13,000 to 15,000 before present (BP)?
The first Walker Hill Informational Forum was presented by Leech Lake Heritage Sites (LLHS) staff, who made the discovery.
More on the Walker site.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:33 pm
by Beagle
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl ... anId=sa027
That now appears in doubt, as Stafford and Waters have succeeded in dating five of the remaining sites more accurately thanks to improvements in the technology of radiocarbon dating. Using atomic accelerators and collagen purified in molecular sieves, the two found that the Clovis artifacts they dated all occurred within 11,050 radiocarbon years to 10,800 radiocarbon years before present. "Just a duration of about 200 years with a maximum duration of 350," Waters says.
That means Clovis sites are contemporaneous with some undisputed sites in South America and younger than some in North America. It also makes it difficult to understand how an ancient people could have spread so far in such a limited amount of time, let alone how the Clovis point [see image above] people could have spread throughout the U.S. "That raises the question: Is it a people or a technology?" Waters asks. "That kind of rapid spread of technology is almost unprecedented. Metallurgy moved very quickly, gunpowder and things like that, but that was a different time."
More on Waters' study.
From the News Section.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:42 pm
by Minimalist
but that was a different time."
Maybe it wasn't as different as they think?
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:39 pm
by Beagle
I tend to agree.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:04 pm
by Mayonaze
Charlie Hatchett wrote:Which again raises the idea of common heritage I think.
I agree. Something to keep in mind.
I believe I read somewhere that Neanderthals were much like Inuits?
Just wanted to relate that I travel to rural Alaskan villages from time to time. On one occaision, I attended a potlatch where 3 villages gathered in one place for dancing and food. I was able to observe a few Yupik (Inuit Eskimos in northern Alaska, Yupik Eskimos in the south - very similar) families represented by three generations: grandparents, parents, and adult children. The transformation generation to generation was striking. Grandparents tended to be very short, stocky, often bow-legged and their faces were broad and flat but with angular cheek bones and jaws. The adult children tended to be two or more heads taller, much slimmer, and their faces had much softer, rounder, more oriental features. Parents were in between. Remarkable differences in just three generations that I am sure are reflected in their skeletal structure. All because of changes - not of a genetic nature - but in diet and health care.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:29 pm
by Beagle
Yes, that trend seems to be happening all over. We're taller that our parents on average, and two of my children are taller than me. Also, the nutritional deficit diseases that used to be common are almost non-existent. With iodine added to our table salt, when is the last time anyone saw a goiter?
That's pretty neat that you have the opportunity to get to those areas in Alaska. From time to time we may have questions.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:56 pm
by ravenwing5910
Actually I saw a patient with a goiter, just a couple of years ago, an older woman from the midwest. But then I worked in Internal Medicine and aside from her in the last 20 yrs there was only one other. So yes many problems have been solved with nutritional/medical advances, but other problems have arisen for instance obesity, diabetes, autism and ADHD.
I know its off subject but you did ask about the goiter.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:59 pm
by ravenwing5910
[Just wanted to relate that I travel to rural Alaskan villages from time to time. ] [/quote]
Mayo, Since you get the opportunity to go to Alaska, have you ever thought of doing an ethnography?
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:06 pm
by Beagle
I agree with that Raven. We don't see much in the way of nutritional deficiency syndromes, but we have a whole new set of problems. The Native Americans have an epidemic of diabetes that has been going on most of my life I think.
I think we've run amok with too much food. The children especially.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:21 pm
by Minimalist
It's those SUPER-SIZE Big Macs!
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:49 pm
by ravenwing5910
[quote="Beagle"] The Native Americans have an epidemic of diabetes that has been going on most of my life I think.]
[quote]
Oh, you probably will regret getting me started on the Native American issues. In my opinion the epidemic of Diabetes especially among the Hopi had been caused directly (and probably intentionally) by the US government. Dammed the river, thus destroying the ecosystem that supported the local tribes, then build a DMII research facility right there as the tribes are handed government cheese for their new diet!!!!!!!
Tell me that wasn't intentional. (soap box)
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:10 am
by ravenwing5910