Is the Jesus story an astrological allegory?

[Beagle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

I think the discussion in this thread has mostly been about the archaeoastronomics involved in some of the mythology surrounding the birth of Jesus.

In that regard, I don't think it had that much to do with the facts at all. Much of what children get fed in Sunday School comes straight from the decisions of the Council of Nicea, first convened in 325 AD, which most people would say happened about 300 yrs. after the death of Jesus.

But the fact that Dec. 25th is a date based in ancient astronomics has been commonly known. It was decided upon at Nicea. It had nothing to with the Bible.

[Ishtar]

Beags - I don't know. I'm just quoting Roy. So don't panic. It's probably nothing to do with the French!

But do you remember when I put up these pictures?

Here's the guy wearing stag horns on an Indus seal (circa 3,000 BC)



And this is the Celtic Gundestrop cauldron, found in Denmark (circa 1,000 BC)



There are lots of other examples of Celtic stag heads in Britain and he has been named 'Cernunnos'.

So it looks as though the stag head idea was pretty widespread idea across the world at one time.

Then we have the French megaliths, which when arranged in circles, are generally thought to have some sort of astronomical function (opinions vary on just what, though).

Here's the painting of the 'antelope sorceror' from Lascaux, but I don't think it looks much like a shaman shapeshifting into a stag, which is what it's supposed to be. They say that the face looks human. But to me, it looks more like just an antelope or stag.

[Ishtar]

As Precession is so slow I would suggest that writing or star maps would probably have to precede its discovery.

Possibly. But we know that the Indians wrote on palm leaves - in a hot, humid climate.

[Beagle]

Thanks Ishtar, I remember the pics well and I'm a big fan of the cave art.

But my question was, how do we know that the figures on the Indus seals were symbolic of the equinox?

[Ishtar]

Beags, as I said, it is just the opinion of this Indian scholar Roy, and I don't how widespread that opinion is. But if I get any more on it, I'll come back to you with it.

I really just chucked that in to give you a laugh, as I thought of you when I read it today!

[Beagle]

Thanks Ishtar, you did answer my question the first time, I just didn't pick up on it.

I actually only give the French government a hard time.

[Digit]

I actually only give the French government a hard time.

So do we! Damned Frogs!

[Minimalist]

I would like to extend a warm welcome to Archie who, I've just been told, has announced on another forum that he is following this thread.

Archie, I hope you're enjoying watching us take the idea that the stories of the Bible are historical and literal and tear it into tiny shreds, and then chuck it into the eternal and immortal trash can at the End of the Universe.

Hi, Arch!!!!

[Ishtar]

Nice bum, Min.

[War Arrow]

I actually only give the French government a hard time.

So do we! Damned Frogs!

Not wanting to get into a fight or anything, but at a grass roots level I happen to like the French, though admittedly not their government, but then I'm not sure many of them do either. And for that matter, I'm no big fan of my government either.

[Ishtar]

Well, I don't know if the French knew about the precession of the equinoxes (poe)

But I think we’ve established that the poe was known about at least in some areas of the world close to Israel, if not to the Hebrews themselves in and around 2-3,000 BC.

Given that, I find it difficult to believe that the Hebrews didn’t know about it. It’s just that we can’t get actual definite confirmation.

But as stated in the film script, the peo dictates which of the 12 astrological signs the sun is in for each 2,150 years cycle (age or aeon).
As we know, there are 12 signs in the Zodiac, and astrotheism posits that is why the number 12 crops off so often in not just the Judaeo-Christian literature, but also in other mythology.

In the Bible, we have:

§ 12 disciples of Jesus
§ 12 brothers of Joseph
§ 12 heavenly city gates (Revelations)
§ 12 tribes of Israel

In Greek literature, we have:
§ 12 labours of Hercules
§ 12 altars of Janus
§ 12 shields of Mars
§ 12 gods of Mount Olympus

Other sacred literature:
§ 12 adityas or suns (Indian)
§ 12 disciples of Buddha
§ 12 Imans (Islam)
§ 12 asses (Scandinavian)
§ 12 jewels on high priest’s apron (Jewish)
§ 12 knights of the Round Table (Arthurian)

[Minimalist]

I actually only give the French government a hard time.

So do we! Damned Frogs!

Not wanting to get into a fight or anything, but at a grass roots level I happen to like the French, though admittedly not their government, but then I'm not sure many of them do either. And for that matter, I'm no big fan of my government either.

Ah, yes....

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

H. L. Mencken

[Ishtar]

Well, I don't know if anyone's still interested in astrotheism, but personally I find it much more fascinating that the French, so I'll go on anyway in the hope that someone might read it and find it interesting - for 'someone' read 'Archie'!

So according to this theory, the age of Taurus the bull would have been 4300 – 2150 BC.

We certainly have a lot of evidence in mythology across the world of a bull motif. It seems to run through everyone’s, from the Greeks and Celts to the Persians and Egyptians.

Here’s a few, and some can be dated to pre-2150 BC – certainly the Harappan pottery and the Sumerian and Indian stories:

§ Bull horns associated with Isis (Egyptian)
§ Osiris (Godhead) depicted as a bull (Egyptian)
§ Dionysus (Godhead) depicted as a bull (Greek)
§ Zeus (Godhead) depicted as a bull (Greek)
§ Bull of Heaven slain by Enkidu and Gilgamesh. (Sumerian/Babylonian)
§ Bull is found on Harappan pottery (Indian)
§ Shiva (Godhead) rides a bull (Indian)
§ Teshub (Godhead) rides a bull (Hurrian)
§ Yahweh (Godhead) rides a bull (Jewish)
§ Ahura Mazda (Godhead) rides a bull (Zoroastrian)
§ Perseus/Mithras slays the bull (Persian)
§ Young god Amen was called ‘young bull with pointed horns’. (Egyptian)
§ Mithras is shown killing the bull within the circle of the Zodiac. (Roman)
§ The Bull-man (kusarikku) composite bull/man, slain in the sea by Ninurta. (Sumerian/Babylonian)
§ Hu rescues the Avanc monster from the watery depths by means of the horns of a large ox or bull (Celts)
§ Oxen drag some land out to sea for Frigga to form Seeland (Scandinavia or Norse)
§ For Dido to gain Carthage, the land is enclosed in ox hide. (Greek)

Does anyone know of any more, even possibly French ones?

[Digit]

I'm decent!

[Minimalist]

The whole Cretan culture was based around the minotaur. One of Hercules' 12 labors was the capture of the Cretan Bull.