Bosnian pyramids, Part II, no photos please!

[stellarchaser]

[quote="RK Awl-O'Gist1) You research written records/ previous excavation notes for the prospective site.
2)A team goes out to survey the site, using geophysical equipment to get a radar picture of what's below the surface.
3)They report back, and if there is enough to justify excavation, funding is applied for.
4)If successful in that, licenses to dig are applied for
5)The excavating team is assembled, with experts in particular fields depending on what is hoped to be found.
6)On arrival on site, the team decides how best to investigate the site. More geophys is used to get a broader picture, and trenches planned according to what is deemed a priority.
7)Each trench is excavated by a dedicated team, with no-one else being allowed in while digging progresses.
8 ) Soil from each trench is sieved, to find any tiny artefacts that may have been missed first time round.
9)Once experts have agreed on what has been found, they are recorded using a grid system, photography, and then recovered and individually bagged for further investigation later.
10) Photography usually includes a tower, to give an overall picture of the site and trenches in context.
11) Any further equipment/expert advice is brought in as needed.
12) In Britain at least, any discovery of human remains requires the Police to be notified to rule out a crime scene.
[/quote]

Dear RK,

thank you very much, and I mean it honestly. Finnaly someone with the knowledge, because everyone else didn't say a word about it. Now would you understand me if I say that Mr.Harding jumped over few above given steps. Ok, he had no time. But that could have been done. I don't see any reason why not, if Mr.Harding came with, or sent his assessment team to do it in proper way. Ok, it costs, but I pressume, every such assessments costs, regadless on location. But at least we would have better assessment or more firm assessment.

[DougWeller]

Very good, but you left out using something like a Harris matrix and either a grid system or GPS for mapping the location of every artefact found.

Stellarchaser, on Ma'at someone is vociferiously arguing that people who say Visoko was a medieval capital are wrong (but in stronger words). I find a number of web sites that call it a capital, are they all wrong?

[stellarchaser]

Very good, but you left out using something like a Harris matrix and either a grid system or GPS for mapping the location of every artefact found.

Stellarchaser, on Ma'at someone is vociferiously arguing that people who say Visoko was a medieval capital are wrong (but in stronger words). I find a number of web sites that call it a capital, are they all wrong?

Visoko was bosnian capital in mediaeval times. On the top of Visochica Hill there was a fortress, a little town, were Bosnian Kings were situated. Near the hill were stone churches built by bosnian kings. Unfortunatelly, not much left of the city. The city was neglected in past decades, and now there's almost nothing to restore or conservate. there are only few blocks remained there, and protected area is only few hundred square meters wide.

Most of the artifacts are in Visoko Museum, who organized this excavations.

There are some indications that Visochica Hill area was populated from neolithis times. Roman artifacts also have been found there. It seems that Visochica Hill region had some important influence for people who lived there throughout the centuries. I wouldn't say mistycal, but religious certainly.

But to cut long story short and answer your question: yes, it was Bosnian capital.

[alrom]

You research written records/ previous excavation notes for the prospective site.
2)A team goes out to survey the site, using geophysical equipment to get a radar picture of what's below the surface.
3)They report back, and if there is enough to justify excavation, funding is applied for.
4)If successful in that, licenses to dig are applied for
5)The excavating team is assembled, with experts in particular fields depending on what is hoped to be found.
6)On arrival on site, the team decides how best to investigate the site. More geophys is used to get a broader picture, and trenches planned according to what is deemed a priority.
7)Each trench is excavated by a dedicated team, with no-one else being allowed in while digging progresses.
8 ) Soil from each trench is sieved, to find any tiny artefacts that may have been missed first time round.
9)Once experts have agreed on what has been found, they are recorded using a grid system, photography, and then recovered and individually bagged for further investigation later.
10) Photography usually includes a tower, to give an overall picture of the site and trenches in context.
11) Any further equipment/expert advice is brought in as needed.
12) In Britain at least, any discovery of human remains requires the Police to be notified to rule out a crime scene.

Dear RK,

thank you very much, and I mean it honestly. Finnaly someone with the knowledge, because everyone else didn't say a word about it. Now would you understand me if I say that Mr.Harding jumped over few above given steps. Ok, he had no time. But that could have been done. I don't see any reason why not, if Mr.Harding came with, or sent his assessment team to do it in proper way. Ok, it costs, but I pressume, every such assessments costs, regadless on location. But at least we would have better assessment or more firm assessment.

I understand that Dr. Harding went there and did survey the site, but by just looking at it. And with just that he thought that there was nothing that would justify an excavation in search of a pyramid.

The excavation by the Foundation is completely irregular. Disregard or manipulation of geophysical analysis, open access to the trenches, no sieving, no grid system, no systematic photographs.

[stellarchaser]

You can hardly blame the rest of us for being suspicious about both your allegiances and your motives

It's rather silly to be suspicious of some geologists and archaeologists that are completely unrelated to the excavation at Visoko, and not being suspicious of Osmanagic who has wild, ridiculous and unscientific ideas (obvious even to someone without formation in archaeology), who has lied about who his collaborators are, and who has hidden information that was against his claims. Or Barakat, who has been easily proven wrong a couple of times, and has botched it at least once before as far as we know (the sand dollars incident).

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid, who knows, maybe all those geologists are wrong and the Osma Team is right. Yeah, but, there's no trace of a pyramid there. All their proofs of a pyramid there have been proven false. Why should they keep digging? because Osmanagic had a hunch about it?

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

You're an adult free person. Believe whoever you want. Nobody can't stop you in that.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid

I'll be surely waiting. As for you, as I said, you're free person, do as you wish. Nobody forces you to wait anything. Just don't do it. Find something else to occupy yourself with.

Why should they keep digging?

Because it's long term multi-national project planned and organized by our goverment in cooperation with other goverments. Don't tell me that 10 year excavations plan should be halted because Alrom finds it unneccessary. Or anybody else.

[stellarchaser]

[quote="alrom
The excavation by the Foundation is completely irregular. Disregard or manipulation of geophysical analysis, open access to the trenches, no sieving, no grid system, no systematic photographs.[/quote]

Thank you very much for your concerns. Go there, tell to the three archeologists and two geologists that they are plonkers, and tell them that they are lucky because you just found some free time to teach them science. Or you would rather to halt the excavations?

As for photographs, adress the camera man who obviosly learned the trade making porn movies.

[alrom]

You can hardly blame the rest of us for being suspicious about both your allegiances and your motives

It's rather silly to be suspicious of some geologists and archaeologists that are completely unrelated to the excavation at Visoko, and not being suspicious of Osmanagic who has wild, ridiculous and unscientific ideas (obvious even to someone without formation in archaeology), who has lied about who his collaborators are, and who has hidden information that was against his claims. Or Barakat, who has been easily proven wrong a couple of times, and has botched it at least once before as far as we know (the sand dollars incident).

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid, who knows, maybe all those geologists are wrong and the Osma Team is right. Yeah, but, there's no trace of a pyramid there. All their proofs of a pyramid there have been proven false. Why should they keep digging? because Osmanagic had a hunch about it?

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

You're an adult free person. Believe whoever you want. Nobody can't stop you in that.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid

I'll be surely waiting. As for you, as I said, you're free person, do as you wish. Nobody forces you to wait anything. Just don't do it. Find something else to occupy yourself with.

Why should they keep digging?

Because it's long term multi-national project planned and organized by our goverment in cooperation with other goverments. Don't tell me that 10 year excavations plan should be halted because Alrom finds it unneccessary. Or anybody else.

Yeah people can believe whatever they want, but I understand that we're living in a world ruled by rational thought (or at least we try ) and people choose what to believe based on FACTS. If you go believing in blue unicorns you're deemed a fool.

Ok now it's your turn. What reasons do you have to believe that there's a pyramid in that hill? Try to explain them clearly so we can understand them.

And excavations should be stopped if what they're looking for is found to not exist at all. This has happened before and will happen lots of times, scientists make mistakes, they know it and they usually are quite good at accepting them when the proof is against them.

[alrom]

The excavation by the Foundation is completely irregular. Disregard or manipulation of geophysical analysis, open access to the trenches, no sieving, no grid system, no systematic photographs.

Thank you very much for your concerns. Go there, tell to the three archeologists and two geologists that they are plonkers, and tell them that they are lucky because you just found some free time to teach them science. Or you would rather to halt the excavations?

As for photographs, adress the camera man who obviosly learned the trade making porn movies.

There have been lots of reports by professional archaeologists who have been there and saw that it was like I describe. It's not me making up things.

And yeah, that's the weird thing, why aren't those archaeologists there doing something to fix that?

[DougWeller]

[quote="alrom
The excavation by the Foundation is completely irregular. Disregard or manipulation of geophysical analysis, open access to the trenches, no sieving, no grid system, no systematic photographs.

Thank you very much for your concerns. Go there, tell to the three archeologists and two geologists that they are plonkers, and tell them that they are lucky because you just found some free time to teach them science. Or you would rather to halt the excavations?

As for photographs, adress the camera man who obviosly learned the trade making porn movies.[/quote]

I'd love to be able to ask them about their methodology. I don't think I'd be that rude, but if they aren't doing those things I'd ask why.

[stellarchaser]

It's rather silly to be suspicious of some geologists and archaeologists that are completely unrelated to the excavation at Visoko, and not being suspicious of Osmanagic who has wild, ridiculous and unscientific ideas (obvious even to someone without formation in archaeology), who has lied about who his collaborators are, and who has hidden information that was against his claims. Or Barakat, who has been easily proven wrong a couple of times, and has botched it at least once before as far as we know (the sand dollars incident).

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid, who knows, maybe all those geologists are wrong and the Osma Team is right. Yeah, but, there's no trace of a pyramid there. All their proofs of a pyramid there have been proven false. Why should they keep digging? because Osmanagic had a hunch about it?

It seems pretty obvious who you should believe.

You're an adult free person. Believe whoever you want. Nobody can't stop you in that.

Anyway, you argue that we should wait until the excavation is finished in order to see if there's a pyramid

I'll be surely waiting. As for you, as I said, you're free person, do as you wish. Nobody forces you to wait anything. Just don't do it. Find something else to occupy yourself with.

Why should they keep digging?

Because it's long term multi-national project planned and organized by our goverment in cooperation with other goverments. Don't tell me that 10 year excavations plan should be halted because Alrom finds it unneccessary. Or anybody else.

Yeah people can believe whatever they want, but I understand that we're living in a world ruled by rational thought (or at least we try ) and people choose what to believe based on FACTS. If you go believing in blue unicorns you're deemed a fool.

Ok now it's your turn. What reasons do you have to believe that there's a pyramid in that hill? Try to explain them clearly so we can understand them.

And excavations should be stopped if what they're looking for is found to not exist at all. This has happened before and will happen lots of times, scientists make mistakes, they know it and they usually are quite good at accepting them when the proof is against them.

Ok now it's your turn. What reasons do you have to believe that there's a pyramid in that hill? Try to explain them clearly so we can understand them.

I NEVER said that there is a pyramid on that hill. That site was populated from neolithic times till today, so what is so outrageous to expect that some archeological artefacts would be find there? That is why Visoko Museum organized the excavations in the first place.

And excavations should be stopped if what they're looking for is found to not exist at all.

Tell me Alrom, are you an archeologist? So if you're looking for a roman settlement for example, and instead of that you find settlement from bronze age, you would stop the excavations? can we speak reasonably here? There is a law about archeological finds in Bosnia (and I presume it's the same law anywhere in the world: If archeological site is found, archeologists are obligated by law to: 1)research the site 2)protect the site

In my home town they were changing buildings plans, because construction company found archeological site there where building was planned to be.

but I understand that we're living in a world ruled by rational thought

Are you sure in this? Now as we speak thousands of children dying becaouse or extreme poverty, and thousands of people starving this very second. Not to mention innocent people dying in the wars caused by pure greed, or devastation of our nature, again out of pure greed. I was hoping that science would lead us to better world, but it seems that science didn't give its best. So please don't be pathetic.

[stellarchaser]

[quote="alrom
The excavation by the Foundation is completely irregular. Disregard or manipulation of geophysical analysis, open access to the trenches, no sieving, no grid system, no systematic photographs.

Thank you very much for your concerns. Go there, tell to the three archeologists and two geologists that they are plonkers, and tell them that they are lucky because you just found some free time to teach them science. Or you would rather to halt the excavations?

As for photographs, adress the camera man who obviosly learned the trade making porn movies.

I'd love to be able to ask them about their methodology. I don't think I'd be that rude, but if they aren't doing those things I'd ask why.[/quote]

you have right to do it. Find a mail of Visoko Museum, and write them. It's nothing rude in that, just express your legitimate concerns.

[alrom]

I NEVER said that there is a pyramid on that hill. That site was populated from neolithis times till today, so what is so outrageous to expect that some archeological artefacts would be find there? That is why Visoko Museum organized the excavations in the first place.

And excavations should be stopped if what they're looking for is found to not exist at all.

Tell me Alrom, are you an archeologist? So if you're looking for a roman settlement for example, and instead of that you find settlement from bronze age, you would stop the excavations? can we speak resonably here?

but I understand that we're living in a world ruled by rational thought

Are you sure in this? Now as we speak thousands of children dying becaouse or extreme poverty, and thousands of people starving this very second. Not to mention innocent people dying in the wars caused by pure greed, or devastation of our nature, again out of pure greed. I was hoping that science would lead us to better world, but it seems that science didn't give its best. So please don't be pathetic.

Oh ok, I misunderstood you. So you say that there's no pyramid there but there are roman and medieval (and maybe older) artifacts there and that they should change the objective of the excavation to that. Yeah I agree with you on that.

But Osma Team have been proved to be quite inept so they should be kicked out and substituted by real archaeologists.

[stellarchaser]

I NEVER said that there is a pyramid on that hill. That site was populated from neolithis times till today, so what is so outrageous to expect that some archeological artefacts would be find there? That is why Visoko Museum organized the excavations in the first place.

And excavations should be stopped if what they're looking for is found to not exist at all.

Tell me Alrom, are you an archeologist? So if you're looking for a roman settlement for example, and instead of that you find settlement from bronze age, you would stop the excavations? can we speak resonably here?

but I understand that we're living in a world ruled by rational thought

Are you sure in this? Now as we speak thousands of children dying becaouse or extreme poverty, and thousands of people starving this very second. Not to mention innocent people dying in the wars caused by pure greed, or devastation of our nature, again out of pure greed. I was hoping that science would lead us to better world, but it seems that science didn't give its best. So please don't be pathetic.

Oh ok, I misunderstood you. So you say that there's no pyramid there but there are roman and medieval (and maybe older) artifacts there and that they should change the objective of the excavation to that. Yeah I agree with you on that.

But Osma Team have been proved to be quite inept so they should be kicked out and substituted by real archaeologists.

For me there's no pyramid there until I see scietific proofs about it. Truth is that the Hill has pyramidal shape. It can be natural, which is rare, and can be artificial. It can be only that humans for some reason reshaped the hill into shape of the pyramid. In this case it wouldn't be a pyramid, but a mound. And mounds you can find everywhere in the world. But even that is just a possibility. But since it's known archeological site from past times (prehistoric, roman and mediaevel artifacts), it could be expected that excavations will resulted with further findings. That is why I can't understand that people want to halt excavations.

If I had one, I would tear up my Diploma if nothing is found on Visochica

[stellarchaser]

I'm deeply apologize for this multiple posts, my access to forum was halted for some time and I didn't have any respond, ie. I didn't know that samepost is going in multitudes. could anyone help me to delete all this please?

[stellarchaser]

[quote="DougWeller
I'd love to be able to ask them about their methodology. I don't think I'd be that rude, but if they aren't doing those things I'd ask why.[/quote]

Why it would be rude? You are fellow archeologists, and I'm really suprised that no one contacted them there and made an inquiry. They won't bite anyone