Neanderthal DNA

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:24 pm

Comedian, Chris Rock, observed that behind every great fortune is a great crime.

I can't think of the name of the fellow who first said that Min, but Mario Puzo quoted him in the forward to "The Godfather". I lost my copy years ago.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:01 pm

Mario Puzo said "one man with a briefcase can steal more than 100 men with guns." I'm pretty sure that was in The Godfather. Don't know about the other thing.

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:12 am

Apologies if this has been flagged already..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6209554.stm

Dr Rosas and colleagues found a north-south variation in Neanderthal jaw bones, suggesting that populations from southern parts of Europe had wider, flatter faces.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:28 am

Fascinating! But as usual there is contained within a fair amount of conjecture. When the first remains of Neandertal were recovered this could not be man's ancestor, he was short, beatle browed, bow legged etc.
Cro Magnon is discovered. 6ft 6inches tall, erect, long limbed etc. THIS must be man's ancestor because we all look like him, don't we?
I fear that some of this bias still exists. I think it unlikely that either Neandertal or Cro Magnon knew a great deal about genetics, if, as modern experts maintain, Neandertal walking our streets today would raise no eyebrows why should I assume that either party thought of the others as sub-human.
The Herto skulls remind me of nothing less than modern Ethiopians, with their long faces, and certainly seem far removed in time and space from the typical Mongol and Aboriginal feature, and as such cannot, in my opinion, lend any great weight to 'Out of Africa'.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:53 pm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123302.htm

Diversified social roles for men, women, and children may have given Homo sapiens an advantage over Neanderthals, says a new study in the December 2006 issue of Current Anthropology. The study argues that division of economic labor by sex and age emerged relatively recently in human evolutionary history and facilitated the spread of modern humans throughout Eurasia

It never fails to amaze me how conjectures like this are reached. The author has decided that, based on diet, there was no gender role distinction in H. Neandertal. Therefore HNS was inferior. And these media outlets just gobble it up.

H. Erectus was showing distinct sexual dimorphism early in his existence.
That refers to physical differences between the sexes beyond the primary sexual characteristics.

HNS showed the typical differences that we see today. The male was larger, stronger, more aggressive, and probably had a more developed spatial intelligence.

That fact alone shows that there were separate and distinct gender roles.

santyago · Post by **santyago** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:05 pm

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology ... style.html

My pet theory: Prions killed off Neanderthals! If they were eating each other's brains, they might have contracted a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like Kuru, which almost finished off the cannibalisitic Fore in New Guinea. Any takers?

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:12 pm

mad cow disease, cronic wasting- transmitted by bone marrow and brain--gooloosh.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:20 pm

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/CWD/

What is CWD?
Chronic wasting disease is a fatal neurological disease found in deer, elk and moose. It belongs to a family of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies or prion diseases. The disease attacks the brains of infected deer, elk and moose, causing the animals to become emaciated, display abnormal behavior and incoordination, and eventually die.

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:22 pm

Santyago wrote:My pet theory: Prions killed off Neanderthals!

Bruce wrote:mad cow disease

could be a "no-brainer"

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:25 pm

I think it unlikely that either Neandertal or Cro Magnon knew a great deal about genetics, if, as modern experts maintain, Neandertal walking our streets today would raise no eyebrows why should I assume that either party thought of the others as sub-human.

How about different races vs. different species, each naturally selected for the particular environment in which they lived. Note that Hss enters Europe after the Illinoisan Glacial, and probably during, or slightly after the Sangamon Interglacial Maximum (adaptation takes time). HNs was perfectly suited, or naturally selected, for the cold environment in Europe, during the Illinoisan. Then we see the dominance of Hss during the warmer periods, though small populations of "pure" HNs remain well into the Wisconsin. Global warming... All the southern peeps heading north to escape the heat and drought of the Sangamon? Hss and HNs intermingle. Hss migration to Europe and the Sangamon seem fairly linked.

Something to ponder?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:30 pm

santyago wrote:http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology ... style.html

My pet theory: Prions killed off Neanderthals! If they were eating each other's brains, they might have contracted a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like Kuru, which almost finished off the cannibalisitic Fore in New Guinea. Any takers?

The disease theory has been on the table since the mystery of HNS disappearance first popped up. No way to prove that right now.

Cannabalism occurs in any group of humans during starvation. The most recent that I remember was in the 1970's in S. America after a plane crash in the Andes. But there is no evidence that HNS indulged in cannabalism routinely. Societies that do that are very rare.

During ice age extremes, most Neandertals migrated south, but there are always a few that don't get the word.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:50 pm

Cannabalism occurs in any group of humans during starvation. The most recent that I remember was in the 1970's in S. America after a plane crash in the Andes. But there is no evidence that HNS indulged in cannabalism routinely. Societies that do that are very rare.

theres more reasons for cannabalism than there are for eating vegetables
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism
though this ones my favourite and its never been encountered in HSN populations for some strange reason
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Custom_of_the_Sea

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:53 pm

http://www.kennethgarrett.com/imageSubj ... ertal.php#

Excellent photography (to me anyway) of Neandertal bones, tools, and personal adornments. Click pics to enlarge.

The rest of the website has pics of the other hominid groups.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:46 am

The Fure are not the only members of HSS to practice homopophagy and history seems to show that most societies soon learned of problems associated with various practices. Incest can cause undesirable traits, eating raw liver causes bone diseases, poorly cooked Pork or Salmon causes problems and people created taboos to prevent these practices. Why not HSN?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:41 pm

Well Digit, as you say, why not? We don't know very much about cultural customs or taboos, or even if they existed at all. I think there were some ritual beliefs and practices, but their existence was often so harsh that they could ill afford to limit what they killed and ate. I think the same was probably true about HSS also.

That's what I think anyway.