Pre-Columbian settlement.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:29 am

Roll on the explanations for that one eh Charlie?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:38 am

Roll on the explanations for that one eh Charlie?

If there is some kind of deception going on, what could be a/ the motive?

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:11 am

Digit, here's Wikipedia on the Medieval Optimum along with a decent chart demonstrating that the early Holocene was actually warmer than today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_climate_optimum

I have also noticed tremendous changes in winters where I grew up (Seattle). Somewhat amazing that a small change in world temperature can create such profound effects.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:53 am

Charlie, that's one question I can answer. Money! The Uk government is funding research into global warming, so people are looking for global warming. If you pay enough money to find 'Nessie' Loch Ness would be so thick with boats you'd be able to walk along the length of it.
Here in the UK we had at one time more 'experts' on AIDs then sufferers because the government was afraid of an epidemic. We have a whole industry based on 'Mad Cow Disease' and no evidence that it is transmissible to humans and millions being spent trying to prove that we are facing an epidemic there as well. And what about Bird Flue?
Money Charlie, it's what makes the world go round.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:26 am

Hi Cog, you may have noticed in my earlier post I referred only to Europe as we had more documentation and your post repeats what I said, but, (I seem to use that word quite a lot) Greenland of course is not Europe and much of it is closer to north America than Europe.
Your comments about the weather don't come as a surprise to me because of what is known about the Gulf Stream. As I understand it water in the Carribean Sea is heated by solar radiation, as its temperature rises so it expands till it stands several feet above the surrounding sea level. Water then must flow downhill and its only escape route is into the Atlantic, once clear of the land it is then free to flow north, which is again downhill, the Coriolis effect then means it must flow eastwards.
Meantime, back at the Carribean, warm water must warm the air above, this is also affected by the Coriolis effect and so heads north and east till it reaches something that stops it, usually a cold front, and as the Carribean warms further, (Solar Radiation has increased in recent years) weather patterns must change with the warm weather from the Carribean pushing further and further north. The Earth's climate is a machine, increase the energy uptake and you will get a stronger result.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:26 am

What you're spending makes up for what we aren't spending.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:37 am

We might be spending more that you Min but the problem is it's not being directed at what is happening, it's being directed at proving that global warming is man made. In other words they've made up their minds and are now looking for evidence to fit their pre-conceived ideas, and where the evidence doesn't fit they either are ignoring it or fiddling it.
See Charlie's post and graph my friend.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:43 am

I don't think that anyone doubts that mankind is having a tremendous impact on the planets ecology, but I think we are pretty full of ourselves when we think that we can change the climate to the extent that some scientists are suggesting.

Global warming is real. But NASA has reported last year that Mars is also in a period of global warming. Although that is now being contested, if Mars is warming up, I'm damn sure we didn't have anything to do with that.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:47 am

Whether it is wholly or partly man made seems rather pointless at the moment.

Sea level is rising and if New York goes underwater because of it there will be serious complications. On my last trip back to NY I went down to the beach (one starts to miss the ocean here in the desert ) and was shocked to see how much further the water had come to the parking lot.

But George Bush seems to think the jury is still out!

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:59 am

So do I regarding the causes of global warming, however I still think we need to end the use of fossil fuels for energy.

I think we can find a way now, and I think we need to get busy PDQ.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:38 am

I wonder how much gas is released when 4 billion people in Asia, Africa and South America light cooking fires every night?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:03 am

A solar scientist by the name of Sami Solanki states that in the last 50 years the sun has been warmer, for longer, than than any time in the last 11500 years. The entire 20th century warming from all sources is just under 2 watts per sq mtr of which the sun caused nearly all. Despite Tony Blair's belief that he would 'Save the National Health Service' ( he didn't) would bring peace to Northern Ireland, ( he didn't) would eliminate starvation in Africa, (he didn't) and now claims that he's going to save the world!!?? I very much doubt that man's puny efforts will have much effect on the sun's output.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:06 am

Never mind about the gas output Min, what about the heat? From the viepoint of global waming, heat is heat is heat.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:33 am

Heat dissipates a lot faster than the emissions.

By the way, if those cooking fires are wood-fueled that means that trees are being cut down for fuel leading to less CO2 removal by the trees and adding to erosion problems in the 3'd world.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:37 am

Dissipates to where? If it isn't lost to space it helps warm the planet.