Problematic Discoveries

[Tiompan]

"I would be very surprised if this artifact could be reproduced today with unlimited funding."

http://tinyurl.com/j3fvl6k . $14 might be a bit pricey . But it does heal too .
Plenty more more where they came from , get scrying and you can see what you like .

[Springhead]

Hi Tiompan,

Divination is not really my bag, but I appreciate the link. I can see your point to a point, but the subject matter and compositional style the artifact shows does not make this a scrying adventure. Maybe it was someone else's in the past. I hate to deprive you of any of the glee with which your fevered hands struggled to repost at light speed the evidence that surely would lay my delusional mind to rest.

[Springhead]

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Another sphere from the same site in the NC piedmont. The small image is a detail shot from the artifact. The sphere is not as perfect as the topaz and appears to be lapis lazuli with extremely small painted subject matter as seen in the detail image. Two other interesting spheres were also found. The above sphere is about one and three eighths inches in diameter.

[circumspice]

It looks like you found part of some kid's marble collection. But you'll naysay that possibility because it's not mystical or mysterious enough for you. You don't want a simple explanation for your rocks, you want them to be rare & exceptional.

[circumspice]

@Springhead: You really ought to do your 'due diligence'... I found tons of info, including pics, within a few minutes of desultory Web surfing...

Here are some links pertaining to marbles. There are some good pics showing various types of marbles, including ones that have figures or objects in the center of them...

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=29486

Here is a nearly exact twin for your mysterious blue orb... It is called a Blue Bennington. Scroll down through the article to see your blue orb:
http://www.buymarbles.com/marblealan/nonglass.html

[circumspice]

By the way... Some of your marbles may have actual collector's value...

[Tiompan]

Springhead ,
I think the only fever around here causes things to be seen that aren't there , coupled with a willingness to believe that natural objects are ancient aretefacts .
Scrying :” the practice of looking into a translucent ball or other material with the belief that things can be seen .” seems pefectly appropriate for what you did with the topaz .

[circumspice]

What Springhead is calling a topaz sphere is probably what is called a Sulfide/Sulphide marble. It shares all the major characteristics of sulfide marbles, including the size, color, clarity & inclusions. I'm guessing that he made that determination based on the color of the glass. Maybe he should take it to a certified gemologist to identify the material of the marble. Or take his 'finds' to a reputable marble dealer.

[Springhead]

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Circumspice and Tiompan,

Thank you for your constructive criticism and the interesting links. I certainly may be off base with my ideas, but the issue will require me to look into the matter further. The confusing elements here for me continue to be the subject matter compositional style in the topaz sphere and the micro painting on the blue orb, only one example of which I have shown. As usual, the challenge of capturing clear images is large.

Above is an image of a find from the mountain site. This is a typical tool form found there with the art component. The most obvious art is on the upper left portion of the tool as a relief carving. This tool fits comfortably in hand in the work point down attitude. As is typical with the mountain site, this was a surface find with the only context being the find location. A less obvious art component is the overall composition of the tool as a person looking left with a hat or turban on.

[circumspice]

@Springhead: take your 'topaz' marble to a certified gemologist for 'identification'. Most gemologists will give an identification on an item free of charge. They will, however, charge you if you want the identification to be certified. Most major jewelers will have an in-house certified gemologist on the payroll. That should clear up any confusion you may have & it's free of charge, to address any objections you may have...

[Springhead]

Circumspice,

I appreciate your suggestion and have a local resource available to assess the possible topaz. I used this gemologist's services not long ago to check out a clear quartz stone that had multiple raw diamond characteristics. Alas, no diamond in hand, but the gemologist practically knocked his chair over to get to his analysis room. He said I would have needed a police escort had the stone been a raw diamond.

[Swanz]

Hi E. P.

Sotty to take so long to get back to you, I've been up to my arse in agitations -- arguments with the VA, and a couple of deadlines.

There may be some conections, as the Huastecan language is related to Numic languages. As near as I can determine, the culture is quite different from other Central American cultures. I have not spent much time on the Central and South American writing systems except to look for cognates with the Southwestern epigraphy, and Shang Dynasty writing. I don't expect to find many, because the languages are so different, resulting in big differences in cognition. I would be very interested to see what similarities you have found.

Keep up the good work.

Swanz

Hi schanz -

"Being proven wrong is important for any scientist,
because it opens the way for better research."

In the case of NEO astrometry, the scientists have to be extremely accurate.
I try to hold myself to the same standards for accuracy.
Since my stroke this is extremely difficult.

I now find myself interested in Mixtec hieroglyphic, in particular Mixtec toponyms,
which I believe may be cracked through excavation at Cholula.

I believe that that may provide keys into Huastecan hieroglyphic, related northern scripts,
and some south western petroglyphs.

[Swanz]

"Rock art"? I am sick and tired of this -- totally fed up! I wish people would get things
straight in their terminology."

Rock art as a term is hardly useful , but we are stuck with it . Stone circles are often far from circular but we retain the terminology .
Rock writing , is no better than rock art and has it it’s own problems . Art is a modern concept imposed on prehistoric engravings /paintings but it does at least have some common ground with what we find in Lascaux and in other representational and abstract engravings found throughout the world , the same cannot said for writing .
--- How do you know that Lascaux isn't telling a story? Face it. You've made an assumption. Assumptions are worthless as evidence until proven (and few are).

Ask an Indian. By using the term "rock art" instead of the Indian term "Rock Writing", then you are handing the Indian another slap in the face. I have friends, elders in several tribes, who, if they hear someone calling them "Native Americans", they will see to it that nobody in the tribe talks with that person. One of these elders and I had a conversation and he explained: "Everyone born here is a `native American', I am an Indian, Goddamnit! That is the name we have chosen." Ask an Indian, pinhead.

If you, in fact, read the Martineau material, then discarded it, then you certainly didn't test it. I did, and found it valid! You certainly didn't talk with an Indian about it. Therefore you seem to be indulging in the same practice as so many other researchers -- make an assumption and use if for a fact, or worse yet, evidence. You had better remember that cryptanalists are very heavily into scientific processes -- much more so than many of the modest-I.Q.ed researchers. Cryptanlists' labor results in life and death outcomes. Martineau was very thorough, and very smart!

I read the Martineau many years ago ago and was far from impressed .
He says ,
“ If artistic expression had been the intent ,smooth and accessible surfaces would surely have been used “ . Shouldn’t it be the other way around . If writing was the intent wouldn’t a smooth surface be used ? . This also ignores a general finding in rock art throughout the world ,the surface very often dictates the content of the engravings .That practice is not consistent with writing a specific message but it is for demonstrating the relationship between the surface and the markings of the engraver .
---- This is utter bullshit ---
The communicator will use whatever technique gets the job done best. Inclusions can give very accurate meanings, and rock writing is an example of a written form of hand-sign language (which I also speak some of). Sign language also uses inclusions.

His background in cryptanalysis led him into thinking in terms of there being a meaning to the engravings that could be uncovered by treating the markings as text , hardly a novel approach and one that had failed in the past but would always appear to produce results , everything was predicated on this misconception .

--- More BS ---
I read this quote in the original and was reminded of what my ex-father-in-law (a highly regarded Stanford medical researcher) had to say about these "degreed" critics. "PhD is frequently the title of a Phellatio Donor". Right on!.

--- A quote from a respected dictionary ---
A written language is the representation of a spoken or gestural language by means of a writing system. When dealing with fonts, we are dealing with a written language, and not a spoken language. A particular language can be written in a single or multiple scripts.

Swanz

[Tiompan]

[quote="Swanz"][
--- How do you know that Lascaux isn't telling a story? "

I didn’t say that it wasn’t telling a story . I said that it is much closer to what we call art than writing . Art can tell a story , that doesn’t make it writing .

"Face it. You've made an assumption. Assumptions are worthless as evidence until proven (and few are)."

Face it , you have assumed that rock art is writing when much of it is abstract and there is no possible way of knowing the intent of the engraver(s) .

"Ask an Indian. "
Indians have been asked , and many found Marinteau wanting , e.g. look at the negative responses to his interpretation of the Creek Canyon rock art .


"If you, in fact, read the Martineau material, then discarded it, then you certainly didn't test it. "
I did " in fact " read and it and as I said , like many others found it wanting .

Tiompan said “ If artistic expression had been the intent ,smooth and accessible surfaces would surely have been used “ . Shouldn’t it be the other way around . If writing was the intent wouldn’t a smooth surface be used ? . This also ignores a general finding in rock art throughout the world ,the surface very often dictates the content of the engravings .That practice is not consistent with writing a specific message but it is for demonstrating the relationship between the surface and the markings of the engraver . "

"---- This is utter bullshit ---"

You clearly know nothing about rock art and how the surface often dictates the the content pinhead .

Tiompan said "His background in cryptanalysis led him into thinking in terms of there being a meaning to the engravings that could be uncovered by treating the markings as text , hardly a novel approach and one that had failed in the past but would always appear to produce results , everything was predicated on this misconception ."

"--- More BS ---

I read this quote in the original ."
You failed to explain why you believe the comment about the BS propgated by Martineau was BS . Where do think I got the quote from ,if not the original ?
It appears that your ignorance about the subject extends to a gullibility in accepting interpretations too readily .
Someone with the same background and greater understandimng of rock art has a different view of the use of cryptanlysis in attempting to understand the subject .
See http://rockartblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/ ... es-or.html
For starters about the problems with interpretation try .http://www.ifrao.com/creating-futile-ic ... -meanings/

[Springhead]

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Rock Art: Mother and Child