Archaeologica.org

Seems reasonable to me Beag. Have you seen the programme, 'The Day we Learned to Think' on Discovery at all?

No, I didn't Digit.

I've seen it once before but it was repeated last night, total Bull S**t IMO.
The were arguing that cave paintings were the first clear sign of the ability to think, then it was argued that no, that wasn't the case. It was the ability to speak that showed the ability to think.
So in others words, the careful crafting of a stone tool was accomplished without the ability to think, as I said, Bull S**t!

It should have been retitled "When will we learn to think?"

I agree that most everything that the mainstream media has said lately on that subject has been woefully off base.

But what fazes me Beag is at the end of these programmes is a list of credits! I seems to me that Ish is correct, it's about time these experts did some thinking.

I never watch any of these programmes on the telly, Beags and Dig, because I know how a) dumn these journos are, b) out of date their thinking always is and c) that their aim is to chase a sensational headline rather than the truth.

I don't know, it seems every program has a long list of credits.

http://www.cctv.com/program/cultureexpr ... 2787.shtml

A huge cluster of ancient rock drawings has been discovered in northern China's Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region. Through the help of local herdsmen, the over one thousand drawings from the Bronze Era were discovered about 55 kilometers west of Hailiutu county.

Most of the drawings are carved on black granite along the mountainsides. The drawings stretch about five kilometers into a valley near the Bayinhudu mountain.

The pictures are drawn mainly from daily life. There is a wide of subjects from goats, longhorn-deer and dogs. There are hunting scenes and some mysterious symbols. Most of the drawings are large. Some single pieces contain dozens of patterns. One shows a deer hunt, in an elaborate work rarely found among ancient rock paintings in China.

Liu Bin, the curator of the local Wulatezhong qi museum says the drawings date back to about three thousand years ago -- during of the Bronze Era. The discovery, no doubt, will provide a great deal of knowledge about the lives of ancient herdsmen.

New rock art found, no pics unfortunately.

Over the next few days, as time will allow, I will be putting some pictures of rock art on here that I believe are inspired by the visual imagery of the shamanic journey.

I was prompted by Bednarik’s seeming categoric dismissal that any of the Upper Paleo art could be based on shamanic imagery. In talking about the phosphene hypothesis, he says:

All recent discoveries of the last twenty-six years have squarely confirmed my phosphene hypothesis, and no competing theory has stood the test of time (especially the shamanic hypothesis of art origins, which is so inexpedient I will not bother to discuss it here).

However, Professor Emeritus of the Rock Art Research Institute in Johannesburg, David Lewis-Williams, and his researcher, David Pearce, have recently published a book called Inside the Neolithic Mind, and I would like to present their case here about the phosphene hypothesis:

They gathered some people together who’d had various ‘altered stage’ experiences, and collated the commonalities. Here is what they found.

First of all, this diagram shows the three stages they al went through:

Stage 1`

...altered states often start with geometric mental images. Researchers have given these percepts various names: form constants, phosphenes, endogenous percepts and entopic phenomena.....By and large, seven frequently repeated forms can be identified:

1. A grid and its development into a lattice or expanding hexagon pattern.
2. Sets of parallel lines.
3. Bright dots and short flecks.
4. Zigzag lines, reported by some subjects as angular, by others as undulating.
5. Nested catenary curves, the outer arc of which comprises flickering zigzags (well known to migraine sufferers as the ‘fortification illusion’
6. Filigrees, or thin meandering lines
7. Spirals

Now let’s examine what Bednarik has to say about phosphenes or entopic phenomena:

The first structured engravings are followed by increasingly complex geometric arrangements, such as multiple arcs, zigzags, circles and radiate patterns.

In other words, he not only confirms the experiences of the people who the authors used for their study, but also confirms the reports of many shamans:

The San healer spoke of coloured horizontal lines...the Tukano people of South America take undulating parallel lines to represent ‘the Sun Father’. An arc of several multicoloured parallel lines is taken, understandably enough, to represent a rainbow but in some mythological contexts that would be impossible for an outsider to guess, it is said to be the Sun Father’s penis.

The San concentrate on brilliant lines that they believe to be threads of light that healers climb, or along which they float ....A similar vision has been reported from Australia. An Aboriginal boy taking part in an initiation ... saw cords that seemed to rise in the air....

The spirals represent the second stage of the journey – the vortex. This is the most common experience of all, going down a spiralling, tunnel like vortex until you reach Stage 3 which is where you enter it a full sensory experience of another state with full on visions (I don’t use the word hallucinations as the word has become inextricably associated with the concept of imaginary or unreal.)

Next, I’ll post some photos of Palaeolithic rock art that demonstrates some of some of the above. I'll try to do it tonight ...but it's getting quite late here, so if not, tomorrow...

Here are a few examples of what I believe are phosphene inspired rock art that illustrates the examples of altered state images at the first stage of the shamanic journey – please notice how alike they are even though some are from Catal Hoyuk and others are from the British Isles (Celtic).

But first of all, these are illustrations by a south American Tukano shaman of his visions when he journeys:





and again ....





Now here we have the first of the Neolithic art, zigzags and latticework or grid from Catal Hoyuk.







And these, using remarkably similar motifs with zigzags, spirals and lattices, are from British Neolithic sites – Newgrange, Knowth and Barclodiad y Gawres.

Barclodiad y Gawres




Newgrange




Knowth



I'll post some more tomorrow.

Goodnight all!

Very good, Ish
As much as I think rock art is inportant.
I am glad we can keep a big picture point of view, and laugh at ourselves.
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Ishtar,

You have it the wrong way around, the geometric symbols and markings are based on the way in which our visual system works. Any "meaning" attached to them must have followed at a later date and arguably any "system" in this sense would have taken a long time to develop to a complexity comparable with "shamanism".

To quote our hero of the day:

"Most visual information processed by the visual cortex passes through the striate cortex (area V1 or Brodman’s Area 17). It is the largest known visual cortex area, perhaps even the largest cortical area. Cells in the striate cortex are “organised to respond to specific orientation of line and perception may be fabricated from the accretion of selected features” (Hodgson 2000; cf. Hubel and Wiesal 1979; Tootell et al. 1998). It is thought that features are detected by cortical cells forming the bottom layer of a hierarchy of cells that respond progressively to increasingly abstract geometric features (Barlow 1972). Hodgson deduces that cells in higher layers could respond to simple geometrical patterns."

Like I said in my PM, one only has to rub their eyelids to produce some quite spectacular geometric forms...

Hello Manystones

Many thanks for sending me the link to this article in full, and I look forward to reading it later today.

In the meantime, I have no doubt about the physiological reasons for why, at the beginning of the shaman's journey, he sees phosphene phenomena. As you say one of us only has to rub our eyes to see similar, although it is nowhere near as pronounced as it is at Stage One of an altered state when these visual phenomena increase in their size and intensity.

But there is a physiological reason for everything in life. We see by light bouncing off our retinas. That is a physiological process. So does that mean that what we see is not real? The fingers now operating my keyboard are being activated by the motor signals of my nervous system which is picking up messages from my brain. Does that mean I'm not talking to you now? Or that these are just worthless and meaningless words?

So because we know the physiological reason for these patterns, that doesn't mean we know why Palaeo man used these patterns in his art. However, we do know that the focus of his life was the mystical experience. We know this from the fact that he built ornately decorated cult buildings and megaliths before he even built a house for himself. We also know they practised a shamanic lifestyle from the myths that have been passed down. The Rig-veda (admittedy several thousand years later) is composed of the songs of shamans singing to their spirits, including the spirit of Soma, the psychotropic plant that they took. The Sumerians too, had shamanic inspired myths, like the Descent of Ishtar. These are just the most recent manifestations of a shamanic lifestyle that went back thousands of years back. So why wouldn't some of their paintings and carvings be inspired by that? Because otherwise we are saying that the art had no meaning - that it was merely aesthetic - of a people who insisted on far more meaning to their lives than we do today.

Finally, one of the most common symbols seen in rock art all over the world is that of the snake or the serpent. He also makes the most appearances in mythology too .. .he crops up everywhere. If you go back and look at the diagram in my first post, which shows the different stages of the altered state, you will see at Stage Two, there is a snake. It is very common to see the snake before the tunnel or sometimes in the tunnel.

This should tell us that this art was inspired by more than rubbing of the eyes - because you can't see the snake just by rubbing your eyes. It only appears at Stage 2.

Later on, I'll put some pictures up that I believe illustrate other aspects of the shamanic journey and shamanic culture. And I'll get back to you on Hodgson when I have had a chance to read his article.

Btw - shamanism isn't complex. It's as simple and natural as slipping into a warm bath. It's also not a 'system', like a religion. It's an experience that's as easy to have as it is to dream.

Very interesting examples that you have scanned in, Ishtar. I wondered if you would use Newgrange as an example. Most researchers look at those swirls and decide that they are the result of a drug induced state. We had a conversation on that somewhere.

Some of your examples I think are bona fide written communicatiion, although it doesn't rise to the level of writing. (Celtic)

However, returning to Bednarik, he is stating that phosphene art is not present in the earliest paleolithic art. We might need to look at his entire phosphene theory.

Manystones is well acquainted with rock art and Bednarik. I'll wait and see what he has to say.