Stirring the Pot ;)

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:17 pm

There are people in this country who think its perfectly all right to take something if the owner is not strong enough of capable of keeping it; to some it is morally acceptable to take a life if he disrespects you or your possessions; you can be killed for entering the wrong neighborhood; selling drugs is a justifiable means to an end; I can go on and on. Yet with in the context of their lives, these people love their families, will do anything to help their friends, share what they possess among those whom they care. A dichotomy of good and evil which results from no absolutes and when people are left to decide for themselves what is right and wrong. If the Bible is so reprehensible, then teach the Koran, teach something for God's sake.

ravenwing5910 · Post by **ravenwing5910** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:28 pm

I agree Monk, that people do and always have had an ability to justify their actions right or wrong. And yes some people do need to be taught morals and ethics. But I would like to believe that the people you are speaking of (such as gang members) are a minority and are not necessarily without religion. Sunday Mass (according to some novels and movies) is packed with the mafia. Whether we teach religion in classrooms or not there are going to be people that do bad things, even if they have "good" reasons or have loving families.
PS: aren't there something like 600 (or some) commandments in the old testament? Why do we use only 10 of them?

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:35 pm

If the Bible is so reprehensible

It didn't help Cardinal Torquemada.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:38 pm

Part of the reason for so many laws, is there are religious and civil laws in the old testament. Actually the basis of Christian teaching (early before it became complicated) was two commands: Love God with all your heart. mind and soul; love you neighbor as yourself. Everything else is basically man-made or unecessary complication.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:50 pm

Your opinion is as valid as anyones Raven, that is what this forum is about. Yes, what you say is possibly correct, and it is very noticible within the closed communities in the UK where there are strong social bonds these problems are rarer. The problem is that in thses societies the bond normally has a strong religious back ground.
If we remove religion from the ten commandments we would still have a damn good moral philosophy for living by.
Many years ago a Witness I new attended a gathering in New York, along with many thousands of other Witnesses, three police offeicers were in attendance, they went home at lunch time.
I doubt that many non-religious groups could have been as peaceful.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:20 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpFD1n0n ... ed&search=

George Carlin's take.

john · Post by **john** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:05 am

Forum Monk wrote:
john wrote:Either you enforce an "intellectual" lockstep as a subsitute for real thinking.................or

you think.
...
john
John: you, I and most on this board fall into the latter group and we rarely agree. Think what a mess it would be if everyone were "thinkers".

A mess?

So, to fall within the limits of your (insinuated) political correctness, i.e. "not a mess", I offer the paradigm of G. Orwell's "Animal Farm". And then compare it to the Bush administration. QED.

On the other hand, you've got the paradigm of the Dalai Lama. And compare THAT to the scientists who just had marathon bargaining sessions with the world gummints as to just how strong the language concerning global climate change might be allowed by sd. gummints.

My point is that anyone who dares think is, at this point, damned from the gitgo by...........drumroll............"the military industrial complex". 'Ol Dwight D. was a very perceptive person.

Now, casting back to adaptive thinking and behavior: In my opinion we have not only f--cked up the possibility of Homo sap. species survival, but also the world as we know it to the extent that the only thing that might pull us through - no guarantee - is adaptive thinking of the highest order.

Think of the Irish hedge-schools under the British dominion, as a clue.

john

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am

john wrote:My point is that anyone who dares think is, at this point, damned from the gitgo by...........drumroll............"the military industrial complex". 'Ol Dwight D. was a very perceptive person.

The ole "military-industrial complex" is undone by its own complexity, I'm afraid. In classical adaptive style, the military has redesigned itself into a highly mobile, precision strike, and much more trim version of it's former self. Unfortunately, the industrial machine which supported it lacked the same adaptive skills. Look around you. Most of the smoke-stacks have fallen silent. And most are just fallen.

Now, casting back to adaptive thinking and behavior: In my opinion we have not only f--cked up the possibility of Homo sap. species survival, but also the world as we know it to the extent that the only thing that might pull us through - no guarantee - is adaptive thinking of the highest order.
...
john

The odds are against our survival anyway, because if we don't undo ourselves through war or technology run amuck, its only a matter of time before we're struck by a space rock with "our name on it", in which case, no amount of adaptive thinking is going to save us.

Think "dust in the wind".

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:19 am

My word, we are cheerful today aren't we?

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:22 am

its only a matter of time before we're struck by a space rock with "our name on it",

In such a case, Jesus ain't going to be much help, either!

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:40 am

Minimalist wrote:
its only a matter of time before we're struck by a space rock with "our name on it",

In such a case, Jesus ain't going to be much help, either!

Good cheer or Jesus, has nothing to do with it. I am merely quoting the sentiments of the scientists who study these things. Its not a question of if, but when...

Basically, up till now, according to the big bang cosmologists, we are here on the basis of dumb luck anyway. An odd, freakish accident that allowed about a dozen cosmological constants to be at exactly the precise values necessary to support an expanding universe, capable of coalescing matter in the proper proportions, to permit galaxies, stars, planets, and the eventual planet with life-sustaining possibilities. And eventually those possibilites would spontaneously stir into a single cell capable of reproduction leading to the plethora of life we see today. Against all odds to the contrary. It certainly does not require a stitch of faith to believe it however, because we are the witnesses of its inevitability.

So given all of this, natural phenomena and pure dumb luck and nothing else...its only a matter of time before the luck runs out.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:49 am

I still think that its better to have scientists working on a solution to the problem than to merely pray that it will go away.