Archaeologica.org

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:09 pm**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints'_Day

The origin of the festival of All Saints as celebrated in the West dates to May 13 in 609 or 610 (the day being more important than the year), when Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon at Rome to the Blessed Virgin and all the martyrs; the feast of the dedicatio Sanctae Mariae ad Martyres has been celebrated at Rome ever since. The chosen day, May 13, was a pagan observation of great antiquity, the culmination of three days of the Feast of the Lemures, in which were propitiated the malevolent and restless spirits of all the dead. The medieval liturgiologists based the idea that this Lemuria festival was the origin of that of All Saints on their identical dates and on the similar theme of all the dead. The feast of All Saints, on its current date, is traced to the foundation by Pope Gregory III (731-741) of an oratory in St Peter's for the relics "of the holy apostles and of all saints, martyrs and confessors, of all the just made perfect who are at rest throughout the world", with the day moved to November 1.[5] This usually fell within a few weeks of the Celtic pagan holiday of Samhain, which had a theme similar to that of Lemuria, but which was also a harvest festival.

The Irish, whose holiday Samhain had been, did not maintain this November 1 date for All Hallows Day, as extant historical documents attest that the celebration of All Hallows in Ireland took place in the spring: "...the Felire of Oengus and the Martyrology of Tallaght prove that the early medieval churches [in Ireland] celebrated the feast of All Saints upon 20 April."[6] A November festival of all the saints was already widely celebrated on November 1 in the days of Charlemagne. It was made a day of obligation throughout the Frankish empire in 835, by a decree of Louis the Pious, issued "at the instance of Pope Gregory IV and with the assent of all the bishops," which confirmed its celebration on the 1st of November. The octave was added by Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484).[3]

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:12 pm**

Labour government is sleaze

Historically Ish the end of every Labour government, from it's inception has been the same thing. Every administration has simply run out of money!
They tax us to the hilt, throw it around as though it's going out of fashion then have to start cutting back, the usual victims are the Police and armed forces, defense, then the elderly.
It's no coincidense that the last modern Military mutinies amongst British forces have been under Labour. The last one was in 1947 as Attlee had won the election partly on the promise of bringing the troops home, then found he couldn't afford it and Army and Air Force refused orders in the middle and far east.
Attlee's government wanted the death penalty imposed.
Prior to that was when the first Labour administration went broke as well and cut the forces pay, not their own I might add, and the Navy refused orders in the 'Invergordon Mutiny.'
Recognise any pattern?
My father in law fought throughout the Burma campaign, going in with General Slim and ended the war guarding Japanese POWs and swearing about not going home. He went to India in 41 and didn't return to the UK till 47 and started married life in a damp Prefab, a land fit for heroes.
The tories might be nasty, but at least they are efficient!

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:14 pm**

There are two other major Celtic festivals. Beltane on 1st May (May Day) and Lughnasadh on 1st August:

Lughnasadh was one of the four main festivals of the medieval Irish calendar: Imbolc at the beginning of February, Beltain on the first of May, Lughnasadh in August and Samhain in November. The early Celtic calendar was based on the lunar, solar, and vegetative cycles, so the actual calendar date in ancient times may have varied. Lughnasadh marked the beginning of the harvest season, the ripening of first fruits, and was traditionally a time of community gatherings, market festivals, horse races and reunions with distant family and friends. Among the Irish it was a favored time for handfastings - trial marriages that would generally last a year and a day, with the option of ending the contract before the new year, or later formalizing it as a more permanent marriage.

In Celtic mythology, the Lughnasadh festival is said to have been begun by the god Lugh, as a funeral feast and games commemorating his foster-mother, Tailtiu, who died of exhaustion after clearing the plains of Ireland for agriculture. The first location of the Áenach Tailteann was at the site of modern Teltown, located between Navan and Kells. Historically, the Áenach Tailteann gathering was a time for contests of strength and skill, and a favored time for contracting marriages and winter lodgings. A peace was declared at the festival, and religious celebrations were also held. A similar Lughnasadh festival was held at Carmun (whose exact location is under dispute). Carmun is also believed to have been a goddess of the Celts, perhaps one with a similar story as Tailtiu.

A festival corresponding to Lughnasadh may have been observed by the Gauls at least up to the first century; on the Coligny calendar, the eighth day of the first half of the month Edrinios, is marked with the inscription TIOCOBREXTIO that identifies other major feasts. The same date was later adopted for the meeting of all the representatives of Gaul at the Condate Altar in Gallo-Roman times. During the reign of Augustus Caesar the Romans instituted a celebration on August 1 to the genius of the emperor in Lyon, a place believed to have also been named for the Celtic god Lugh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lughnassadh

I am also wondering why the Christians chose the date 15 August for the Ascension of the Virgin Mary? Aside from it being Krishna's birthday (!!!), I can't find anything pagan on it.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:19 pm**

Monk, there was a major schism between the Irish Catholic Church and the English Catholic Church during the early-ish years of the Church in Europe.
The Irish went their own way and the Pope kicked off the troubles that have existed ever since between the two countries. He excomunicated the Irish Church and gave the English the job of pulling the 'Heretic' Irish into line, by force.
And do you know the reason given? The Irish priests shaved their pates differently to the orthodox requirement! So help me it's true!

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:20 pm**

Digit wrote:
Labour government is sleaze
Historically Ish the end of every Labour government, from it's inception has been the same thing. Every administration has simply run out of money!

And what about when Healey had to bring in the IMF, and Wilson had to devalue the pound?

I know of what I speak. I was around Downing Street at the time. I used to go with my sisters for tea with my uncle and aunt. People say I should be proud to have a former prime minister as my uncle - but that former PM was Jim Callaghan! The shame of it!

Archaeologica.org

History of the Catholic Church and its calendar