Jacob in Egypt

[kbs2244]

Small slip of the keyboard there.

Sarah was Isaac’s mother.
Rebecca was his wife.

In something I just learned while looking up something else is the ill will wasn’t just between decedents of Isaac and Ishmael, but Esau’s decedents weren’t real fond of Isaac or his decedents. (Exodus and Deuteronomy.)

So it is a least a 3 sided family fight.
Plus however Keturah’s sons felt.

[Digit]

My people are a stiff necked people.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

One of the more amusing observations in The Bible Unearthed is where Finkelstein discusses the relationship between Israel and its eastern neighbors, Moab and Ammon. He notes in the story of Lot that.....

Lot and his two daughters sought shelter in a cave in the hills. The daughters, unable to find proper husbands in their isolated situation--and desperate to have children--served wine to their father until he became drunk. Then they lay with him and eventually gave birth to two sons: Moab and Ammon. No seventh century Judahite looking across the Dead Sea towards the rival kingdoms would have been able to suppress a smile of contempt at a story of such a disreputable ancestry.

[kbs2244]

That is one of the things I do like about the Bible.
Especially the OT.
They were not afraid to write down some of the more unsavory parts their history.

Noah getting passed out drunk, and the consequences, is another example.

The Jews don’t talk about it much, but Moses was a murderer on the run.

That is one reason I personally doubt the idea that the OT was a purpose written collection authored to give the Jews a since of national pride.
When you write to create pride you don’t usually include the warts.

Deuteronomy is Moses recounting the events of the last 40 years to a generation that had been born in the wilderness for that reason.
And 1 or 2 of the prophets do the same, but it is all relatively recent history.

40 years is a pretty long time.
And Moses didn’t have much to do in the desert.
It would have been a good opportunity to do some collecting and editing of old writings and oral histories and boil them down into what would become known as Genesis.

[Minimalist]

Killing an "Egyptian" would hardly have gotten "Moses" (had he existed) in trouble with his people. I doubt they would have considered it a "wart" at all.

[kbs2244]

The Jew / Egyptian relationship seems to be a strange one in the OT.

Hagar, Abraham’s “slave” and mother of his favorite son, was “Egyptian.”
When the drought hit they had little fear of heading for Egypt for relief.

Even in the NT, when Joseph and Mary were running away from Herod, they went to Egypt.

They always went south to Egypt.
Never north to Syria.

[Minimalist]

Egypt was not dependent on rainfall for its water supply. If the winter rains did not come no one had to be a genius to figure out what was going to happen.

[jw1815]

Small slip of the keyboard there.

Sarah was Isaac’s mother.
Rebecca was his wife.

Oops! But, blaming it on a slip of the keyboard works for me.

[kbs2244]

I read somewhere that the Egyptians looked down on sheppards.
They had no respect for sheep or goats or the people that cared for them.

But they liked the wool.

And the Nile delta land was too soft for cattle raising,
Not the best for sheep and goats, but they are adaptable animals.

So they let Isaac and his family lives on the useless land and in return got a captive source of wool.

[Minimalist]

I never heard that. Egyptians generally wore linen which comes from flax . I suppose that wool might have been useful if it ever got cold.

I

[jw1815]

I don't know about the possible ancient Egyptian interest in wool, but the claim that they didn't like shepherds has at least one source, the Biblical account of Joseph receiving his brothers in Egypt. According to the story, he advises them that the Pharaoh doesn't like shepherd people and suggests to them where they should settle with their flocks and families.

[E.P. Grondine]

In light of this discussion, it's interesting that one of the principle industries of Ebla was textiles, if I remember correctly.

[jw1815]

That is one of the things I do like about the Bible.
Especially the OT.
They were not afraid to write down some of the more unsavory parts their history.

That is one reason I personally doubt the idea that the OT was a purpose written collection authored to give the Jews a since of national pride.
When you write to create pride you don’t usually include the warts.

I think the national pride bit is true, given the timing and circumstances when the Jewish Bible was written/edited in the form we know it. But, I also think it was based on a combination of old legends that were embellished and new ones that were added, all put together as part of an identity revival in the post exile period. In revivalist movements, old stories get reworked, new ones get built upon old themes, and totally new ones emerge, sometimes with the claim of great antiquity, but are actually syncretisms of the old identity with newer cultural influences.

The Iroquois of New York went through a revivalist movement after the destruction of their Confederacy in the American Revolution. The religious leader/prophet for the revival was Handsome Lake, an elderly sachem, who had been exposed to Christian teachings through his nephews and missionaries. He put an Iroquois spin on them that's both revealing of Native attitudes and a bit amusing for the twist it takes, with the Christian God giving a new instruction to the prophet which just happens to be an old Iroquoian belief - that each nation should follow its own gods and religion, as the Creator intended.

Deuteronomy is Moses recounting the events of the last 40 years to a generation that had been born in the wilderness for that reason.
And 1 or 2 of the prophets do the same, but it is all relatively recent history.

40 years is a pretty long time.

I don't think the 40 years was meant to be taken literally, even by the people who wrote it. The number 40 in the OT appears to be a symbolic figure for "a lot" or "an indeterminate time." The Great Flood lasts for 40 days and 40 nights. The Israelites wander the wilderness for 40 years. In the NT, Jesus spends 40 days in the wilderness, where he's tempted by Satan.

[Minimalist]

Legendary "kings" David and Solomon both rule fo 40 years, too.

[Minimalist]

In light of this discussion, it's interesting that one of the principle industries of Ebla was textiles, if I remember correctly.

Your memory is good, E.P. At least, textiles are mentioned in Ebla's texts...even if almost nothing else that was initially reported was.

http://www.tellmardikh.com/?page_id=179

The city’s main articles of trade were probably timber from the nearby mountains (and perhaps from Lebanon), and textiles (mentioned in Sumerian texts from the city-state of Lagash).

However.....

However, much of the initial media excitement about supposed Eblaite connections with the Bible, based on preliminary guesses and speculations by Pettinato and others, is now widely deplored as “exceptional and unsubstantiated claims” and “great amounts of disinformation that leaked to the public”. Contrary to many earlier claims, the present consensus is that “Ebla has no bearing on the Minor Prophets, the historical accuracy of the biblical Patriarchs, Yahweh worship, or Sodom and Gomorra”.