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Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:42 am
by Rokcet Scientist
Mount Greylock hasn't got nearly steep enough slopes for downhill skiing, so dead flora and soil doesn't neccessarily wash off it (besides, it was deforested well before skiing developed as a sport for the masses). So dead flora
stays in place and transforms to humus and peat, i.o.w. fertile soil, enabling new flora growth. Etc., etc.
Pastures are horizontal. Downhill skiing slopes are diagonal. A crucial and fundamental 10 to 40 degrees difference.
it maybe slow but Nature doesn't run to a clock.
Reforestation in one century is
fucking fast! (Excuse my language).
But then, they weren't deforested downhill skiing slopes either.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:53 am
by dannan14
Rokcet Scientist wrote:Reforestation in one century is fucking fast! (Excuse my language).
But then, they weren't deforested downhill skiing slopes either.
come to Nor Cal and see 100 yr old Redwood forests and try telling me reforestation can't happen in 100 years on steep slopes. Clear cutting is a horrible practice, but the Earth can recover quickly in many situations.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:03 pm
by Digit
Thank you dannan, I was beginning to lose the will to live!
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:19 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
dannan14 wrote:come to Nor Cal and see 100 yr old Redwood forests and try telling me reforestation can't happen in 100 years on steep slopes.
I've seen the 1,000 year old redwoods in Sequoia National Park. Does that count?
Clear cutting is a horrible practice, but the Earth can recover quickly in many situations.
Many? Yes. Most? No. The locale then simply adapts to the new situation. Adopts a new 'role'.
Until about 6,500 years ago the Sahara was a green undulating savannah with 7 rivers flowing through it, an abundant flora and fauna, and settled people communities. It then suddenly dried up and out and has been the world's biggest sand box ever since.
Not much recovery there.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:40 pm
by Digit
Not much recovery there.
Would that perhaps be due to climate rather than logging?
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:14 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
Climate change affects (de)forestation as much as (de)forestation affects climate change, Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:30 pm
by Minimalist
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/science/16obfog.html
Fog may come on little cat feet and sit on silent haunches before moving on, as the poet Carl Sandburg wrote, but in central and Northern California it plops its bulk down on the state’s redwoods and makes itself quite comfortable.
Frequent summer fog along the coast from Monterey to the Oregon border helps nurture the coast, or California, redwood (Sequoia sempervirens), which inhabits a narrow north-south band in that region.
The fog, however, is less frequent than it used to be, according to a study by James A. Johnstone and Todd E. Dawson of the University of California at Berkeley. And that may be stressing the tall trees, they write in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:34 pm
by Digit
Certainly RS, but hardly relevant to man made deforestation. If the western seaboard of the USA were to dry out they could also say goodbye the the Redwood forests. A chap on another forum is currently in Zambia on a reforestation scheme, reforestation is being carried out all over the world, and as flat land is too valuable for other purposes it is mostly on slopes.
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:18 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
Digit wrote:hardly relevant to man made deforestation.
I'm not interested in apportioning blame, Roy. That's not going to solve the inherent problems. What are we going to do? Sue our parents, grandparents, and other ancestors...?
I'm only interested in understanding the mechanics and dynamics of the events, so that we may learn to address them effectively. Even if that means we'll have to recognise and accept that we won't be able to undo the damage, or stop the process(es). That realisation and acceptance may prevent the wasting of an
awful lot of money and effort on ultimately ineffective mega plans. Money and effort better directed at
adapting to the changing situation, instead of trying in vain to stop it and/or undoing the damage.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:35 pm
by Digit
My point was that, slowly, the matter is being addressed, here by the Forestry Commision and elswhere by national governments.
As a keen woodworker I have a more than passing interest in this matter.
http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images ... ation.html
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:55 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
For illustration purposes here's a dramatic demo of the consequences of deforestation caught on film yesterday:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8517378.stm
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:14 am
by Digit
Well they look like trees to me!
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:31 am
by Minimalist
Yes, at least a few trees. Plus the ground was covered with grass or other vegetation. I certainly hope it wasn't a vineyard!
On the other side of the equation, we don't know how hard it rained or for how long, either.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:53 am
by Digit
On the other side of the equation, we don't know how hard it rained or for how long, either.
I was gonna say that! The last slip here was simply because of heavy rain soaking between the bedrock and the cover above produced a fluidised bed and everything went, trees included!
Roy.
Re: VIDEOS: Ancient Civilization in Amazon
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:57 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
Digit wrote:On the other side of the equation, we don't know how hard it rained or for how long, either.
I was gonna say that! The last slip here was simply because of heavy rain soaking between the bedrock and the cover above produced a fluidised bed and everything went, trees included!
I.o.w. the slopes couldn't properly handle the water anymore. The soil's capacity to
quickly absorb and
slowly release water – the "sponge effect" – had been compromised. Ergo: disaster.