Tecumseh crater and the lost Great Chickasaw [peer reviewed]

[Minimalist]

Cassini accurately determined the value of an A.U. in 1672.

[Kalopin]

Cassini accurately determined the value of an A.U. in 1672.

Surely you understand how primitive their equipment was and that Cassini had made a reasonable estimate?

astronomical unit (AU, or au) | unit of...
http://www.britannica.com/science/astronomical-unit

For example, stating that the planet Jupiter is 5.2 AU (5.2 Earth distances) from the ... In principle, the easiest way to determine the value of the astronomical unit ... Cassini made a reasonably close estimate of the astronomical unit based on a ...

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Pri ... verse.html

I [EFR] am sitting at my desk in St Andrews beginning to write this article just after 10 am on Tuesday 8 June 2004. Why is this such a special time? Well a very rare event is happening as I write, namely a transit of Venus across the Sun. Sadly I am unable to view it since the sky is covered with heavy cloud. Previous such transits have been significant in determining the distance between the Earth and the Sun. Halley, in 1679, pointed out that viewing such a transit from two points on the Earth a known distance apart could be used to determine the size of the solar system. The transits of June 1761 and 1769 and those of December in 1874 and 1882 were used to obtain an accurate value for the astronomical unit, which is the distance from the Earth to the Sun. We shall return to this event later in the article, but we should begin with the earliest attempts to measure the size of the universe.

[please describe how anyone could come up with an accurate measurement from the Earth to the Sun [which is constantly varying,] by using another planet as it travels in front of the Sun. I claim this is a ridiculous belief!]

...and regardless of what the very few astronomers at the time may have tried to somehow measure the distance of comet c/1811 f1, there were numerous accounts describing what was observed, that the comet appeared 50% larger than the Sun. This is not a measurement but many observations from many different locations...

Have you, or has anyone, ever seen an object in space that could be described as larger than the Sun?
Can you imagine an object that large in the sky?
Can you imagine what was actually being witnessed?
Why were all these descriptions misconstrued and given some kind of measurement at much later dates?

Understand that there was no seismograph. The strengths were estimated [at a much later date]. There was no way to measure an object in space with any ac curacy, it was estimated at a later date [...and did you see how the A.U. was first measured?- not an accurate design!]

The comet was described as one and a half times the size of the Sun in October 1811- perfect timing for the meteor impact to cause what was misunderstood as an earthquake, as there were many earthquakes, eruptions, strange weather patterns,... all over the globe, not just in the central U.S. Did the NMSZ also cause all of this? :-]

As I have been asking- go by the actual accounts and not what was later estimated...
If the comet was fifty percent larger than the Sun and at the distance that was later estimated, then the comet would have been larger than the Sun and would have disrupted the entire solar system... [simple ;-]

[Minimalist]

No. You are cherry picking what you want and ignoring anything to the contrary.

Ask yourself something. If you can't come close to convincing me what chance do you have with a real geologist?

[Kalopin]

No. You are cherry picking what you want and ignoring anything to the contrary.

Ask yourself something. If you can't come close to convincing me what chance do you have with a real geologist?

How am I "cherry picking"? In fact, not just the majority, but practically every single actual historical account describes the effects from the comet and many to direct total blame to the comet, as they should have. Many thought the entire comet hit the Ohio river, hit the mountains in California,... http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monew ... aper-2.htm

Saturday, December 21, 1811

No mail north of Natchez yesterday. Letters from that city state that a small earthquake had been felt there some days ago. From the principles of earthquakes we are surprised it was not felt here. Earthquakes have generally been felt in southern mountainous countries; sometimes located to a small portion of country sometimes more extended. Different nations, near the Adriatic and Mediterranean, have felt the shock of an earthquake at the same moment.

The Comet has been passing to the westward since it passed its perihelion - perhaps it has touched the mountain of California, that has given a small shake to this side of the globe - or the skake which the Natchezians have felt may be a mysterious visitation from the Author of all nature,

These lines in particular-

Different nations, near the Adriatic and Mediterranean, have felt the shock of an earthquake at the same moment.

The Comet has been passing to the westward since it passed its perihelion - perhaps it has touched the mountain of California, that has given a small shake to this side of the globe -

I can post many more, with similar descriptions...
[...in truth, current understandings and what is being taught, happens to be the result of "cherry picking", as the historical accounts actually do describe the effects from the close passing of a comet...]

I would like to ask anyone, everyone, all,... that- if they can find any evidence to point to the fault, [that lies beneath over three hundred feet of soft sediments and is in the middle of a plate,] near the town the entire force [of the meteor impact] was aimed directly at, New Madrid, Mo., to be the cause of so many disasters and all the resulting aftermath...

[Minimalist]

I clicked on the first link you provided. There were many references to an earthquake.

I didn't see anything about a meteor.

[Kalopin]

I clicked on the first link you provided. There were many references to an earthquake.

I didn't see anything about a meteor.

Could you, maybe come up with a percentage of the population who understood what an earthquake was in 1811?
...and, as low as that percentage may be, what percentage of the population do you think may have understood what a meteor impact was?

...everyone of the accounts describes the effects from a meteor impact. The earth shaking was only one of the consequences resulting. Please look through all the circumstances, the black smoke, sulfur smells, "meteoric" bright lights across the skies, church bells ringing throughout the northeast, extreme temperature differential,...

In fact, there were many meteor impacts recorded, if one would correctly interpret the reports-
http://pasadena.wr.usgs.gov/office/hough/mitchill.html

"Captain Robert Alexander, of Lincoln, (N. C.) gave me a most alarming account of a phenomenon which was generally seen on the night of the 20th instant. Three large extraordinary fires, in the air, one appeared in an easterly direction, one in the north, and one in the south. Their continuance was several hours; their size as large as a house on fire; the motion of the blaze quite visible, but no sparks appeared."

"Another phenomenon appeared on the 22d of November, of which I was a spectator. About 2 o'clock P. M. a meteor took fire in the air, attended with a fulminating noise, and bore a southeast direction; and however unaccountable, it is a fact, that about the same instant, a whitish substance, resembling a duck in size and shape, detached itself, and descended with a swift motion, from the cloud of smoke that was formed, and was beheld at my house, and fifteen miles due north of it, and twenty-three miles west of it, at the same instant."

"Whether these things are ominous or not, one thing is certain, this is a time of extraordinaries."

What was he trying to describe? Maybe the formation process for the Carolina bays craters?

[This was the amount of science available at the time...sadly, our understandings of such descriptions and the science involved, still appears to be quite primitive? ;-]

Permit me also to observe, that contemporaneous earthquakes have agitated other regions of the globe. Terrible commotions were experienced among the Azores in 1808 and 1811; and in Venezuela and St. Vincents in 1812. I have collected the facts into distinct histories, which I intend at convenient times to offer to this society.

...can anyone find any of the "distinct histories"- [reports] that Samuel Mitchell stated that he would "offer to this society"? What happened to the rest of the newspaper articles, historical accounts, eye-witness reports?,... that should be available, as there should be a great deal more...?...

[Minimalist]

Could you, maybe come up with a percentage of the population who understood what an earthquake was in 1811?

Judging by all those newspaper clippings that were contained in your link I would say damn near everyone....at least everyone who could read the papers. They were all unanimous that it was an earthquake.

The only who seems to claiming that a meteor hit is you.

Actual geologists have studied this event, you know?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 811-46342/

Tuttle’s team excavated potsherds, spear points and corn kernels and realized that many of the sand blows were more than 200 years old. “Some had archaeological sites on top of them with 2,000-year-old artifacts,” Tuttle says. “There’s no way the New Madrid earthquakes were a one-time freak event.” The Midwest had been slammed by violent quakes around A.D. 1450 and 900 and 2350 B.C.—and probably more often.

Most earthquakes occur at the edges of the earth’s 15 major tectonic plates; when they slide against each other, the ground gets a jolt. But New Madrid sits in the middle of a plate. Its seismic history—and the magnitude 5.8 Virginia quake that shook the East Coast earlier this year—is a reminder that earthquakes can strike in surprising places.

[Kalopin]

Could you, maybe come up with a percentage of the population who understood what an earthquake was in 1811?

Judging by all those newspaper clippings that were contained in your link I would say damn near everyone....at least everyone who could read the papers. They were all unanimous that it was an earthquake.

The only who seems to claiming that a meteor hit is you.

Actual geologists have studied this event, you know?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 811-46342/

Tuttle’s team excavated potsherds, spear points and corn kernels and realized that many of the sand blows were more than 200 years old. “Some had archaeological sites on top of them with 2,000-year-old artifacts,” Tuttle says. “There’s no way the New Madrid earthquakes were a one-time freak event.” The Midwest had been slammed by violent quakes around A.D. 1450 and 900 and 2350 B.C.—and probably more often.

Most earthquakes occur at the edges of the earth’s 15 major tectonic plates; when they slide against each other, the ground gets a jolt. But New Madrid sits in the middle of a plate. Its seismic history—and the magnitude 5.8 Virginia quake that shook the East Coast earlier this year—is a reminder that earthquakes can strike in surprising places.

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/humbol ... #chapter14

30th of January, 1811. Appearance of Sabrina Island, in the Azores. The island enlarged very considerably on the 15th of June, 1811.

May, 1811. Commencement of the earthquakes in the island of St. Vincent, which lasted till May 1812.

16th of December, 1811. Commencement of the commotions in the valley of the Mississippi and the Ohio, which lasted till 1813.

December, 1811. Earthquake at Caracas.

26th of March, 1811. Destruction of Caracas. Earthquakes, which continued till 1813.

30th of April, 1811. Eruption of the volcano in St. Vincent; and the same day subterranean noises at Caracas, and on the banks of the Apure.]

Did the NMSZ also cause all these eruptions, quakes, and all the strange weather?
Did the NMSZ cause the mini-ice age from 1811-1817?
Did the NMSZ freeze Napoleon's army?

I am sure you are aware by now that I never stated that this area was not a seismic region. As there may have been many quakes prior, the December 16, 1811 event was from a meteor impact...

[Kalopin]

http://blog.cleveland.com/medical/2009/ ... em_sa.html

New Madrid fault no problem, geophysicists Seth Stein and Eric Calais say

study's authors say, that there's no buildup of earthquake-causing strain.

"If you took what's going on now and extrapolated out 10,000 years, you probably still wouldn't get an earthquake," said Northwestern University geophysicist Seth Stein, who with Purdue University geophysicist Eric Calais published the findings last month in the journal Science. "It's pretty clear that [federal officials] vastly overestimated the hazard" in the New Madrid zone. But the GPS readings Stein and Calais have analyzed don't seem to fit this steady-state, once-every-500-years view of New Madrid quakes. The ground in the fault zone ought to be moving a lot now, storing energy like a spring coiling, as strain builds for the next big quake. But eight years of measurements show movement of at most 0.2 millimeters per year -- about the thickness of fishing line.

"The simplest explanation . . . is there's no energy being stored up for the next earthquake," Stein said.

Two-tenths of a millimeter is so slight that it would take more than 100,000 years to build up enough strain for another big quake, Stein and Calais estimate. Since past New Madrid quakes happened much more often, the pair conclude that the fault system isn't behaving in regular, steady-state fashion.

...because- when the meteor impacted it pushed the entire embayment upward, leaving thousands of empty chasms, that have since been filling in from upper sediments.
You see, in the same time that Stein recorded the movement of the fault, which was so slight in a years time, there were many earthquakes recorded, on the register of 3 or 4+ on the Richter.
How could this be?- Because the scales are recording internal landslides and not tectonic activity from the faults... The entire embayment is slowly moving southward...
There is proof to this- The Loosahatchie river was wide enough for two riverboats to pass one another, just a hundred years ago, but it is now difficult for small fishing boats...

[circumspice]

You're batshit crazy Tony.

[Kalopin]

You're batshit crazy Tony.

;-]

...so, what will that say about those who teach students nonsense?, ...based on conjecture, once they realize the accuracy of my findings?

"crazy" as I may be, [within your thought process], I am still waiting for any form of a legitimate rebuttal,...
...something other than- "you're the only one..."
Yes, I am the only one promoting facts and science, while classrooms are continuously subjected to some preformed conclusions, based on just a couple/few reports, never taking into account the plethora of eye-witness reports, the topography, geology,... and now, the impactites and meteorites all pointing to a serial impact from the close passing of a sungrazer comet...

[Kalopin]

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewt ... f=9&t=3691

...draw this line, from the new Madrid bend to north Slayden to view the angle, direction and force from impact...

Is it difficult to see the shockwave pattern?
...to me, it sticks out like a "sore thumb" ;-]
...and this pattern is centered in northeastern Marshall county, Ms.- not New Madrid, Mo....
Please study and draw out each and every line...once the erosion and development over the past couple centuries is removed, the waves are even more obvious, propagating out from this central location...
...you see it?

...this shockwave was recorded by eye-witnesses in several accounts, describing the land, rising and falling thirty to forty feet, instantly...-

- New Madrid Earthquakes of 1811 and 1812 -...
genealogytrails.com/main/events/1811earthquake.html

The heavy damage inflicted on the land by these earthquakes led Congress to pass in ... At the onset of the earthquake, the ground rose and fell - bending the trees until ... The first earthquake of this series on December 16, 1811, was located in .... Broad River, was thrown up several times to the height of thirty or forty feet.
In search of the New Madrid Earthquake - Tennessee...
http://www.tnhistoryforkids.org/insearc ... earthquake

At about 2 a.m. on December 16, 1811, the ground began to shake uncontrollably. ... The subtle 15 to 30 foot rise in the terrain on which the town of Tiptonville sits, ... all of West Tennessee was considered to be Chickasaw land then; we have ... The ground rose and fell in successive furrows, like the ruffled waters of a lake.
Account of Samuel Mitchill, 1815 - U.S.G.S....
pasadena.wr.usgs.gov/office/hough/mitchill.html

On the morning of Monday, the 16th of December, 1811, several shocks of .... amount annually to about sixty; but this year there were no more than thirty-eight. ... Eighteen or twenty acres of land, adjacent to Piney river, suddenly fell down, .... and the river rose six feet upon its former level; the trunks of trees, bedded in the ...
[PDF]GIP 118 PDF - USGS Publications Repository - U.S....
pubs.usgs.gov/gip/118/pdf/GIP118.pdf
File format:Adobe PDF

Personal Accounts from the 1811−1812 New Madrid Earthquakes ... Cracks are yet in the earth in place 18 feet wide...such large quantities of ... at least, two hundred acres of land along the margin of the river, fell in.” .... At forty seven minutes past two, ... the earthquake the ground rose, fell, and cracked; trees snapped and.
The Meeting in 1811 of Tecumseh and Apushamatahah...
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/meeting-1811.htm

Mar 3, 2014 ... In the spring of 1811, Tecumseh, with thirty congenial spirits all well ... a point on the Tombigbee River miles (by land) north of Columbus, Mississippi, and ... heap, but leaving an open space of twenty or thirty feet in diameter for the ..... forty thou sand warriors, and, besides, the blow would have fallen upon ...
Popular Science Monthly/Volume 69/July 1906/Our...
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volum...

Sep 29, 2015 ... The night of December 15, 1811, fell quiet and peaceful, and the settlers ... Giants of the forest were split for forty feet up the stump, half ... size, having widths of thirty feet or more, while some are reported as many as five miles in length. ... The surface settled and a black liquid rose to the belly of the horses.
[DOC]December 16th, 1811: Northeastern Arkansas (New...
serc.carleton.edu/files/NAGTWorkshops/intro/activities/110_R...
File format:Microsoft Word

EQ 1: December 16th, 1811: Northeastern Arkansas (New Madrid Fault): ... At the onset of the earthquake the ground rose and fell - bending the trees until their ... Landslides swept down the steeper bluffs and hillsides; large areas of land .... The maximum horizontal movement (fault offset) of about 29 feet occurred in the ...
Tour of New Madrid Seismic Zone - Show-Me Net
http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/tour.htm

Say hi to the couple who've run it for 40 years. ... Many scientists now believe the big ones of 1811-12 were high 6's to perhaps high 7's, probably not 8's. .... 7, 1812 quake, where nearby sections of land rose as much as 30 feet. ... The Ohio River ice jam broke up at Louisville falls about the time of {the January quake).
Earthquakes, 1811-12 | Entries | Tennessee...
tennesseeencyclopedia.net/entry.php?rec=417

Dec 25, 2009 ... Between mid-December 1811 and mid-March 1812 a series of catastrophic ... Some ground areas rose or fell as much as twenty feet relative to the ... Much of this land now supports Tennessee cotton and soybeans.
Charles Sumner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sumner

...and so, how could this topography be thousands or millions of years old and still have been affected to such a degree, as to resurface the entire valley?
[...which is it? ...can't have both...]

[circumspice]

You're batshit crazy Tony.

;-]

...so, what will that say about those who teach students nonsense?, ...based on conjecture, once they realize the accuracy of my findings?

"crazy" as I may be, [within your thought process], I am still waiting for any form of a legitimate rebuttal,...
...something other than- "you're the only one..."
Yes, I am the only one promoting facts and science, while classrooms are continuously subjected to some preformed conclusions, based on just a couple/few reports, never taking into account the plethora of eye-witness reports, the topography, geology,... and now, the impactites and meteorites all pointing to a serial impact from the close passing of a sungrazer comet...

Hm... Let's see...

1. Delusions of grandeur
2. Messiah complex
3. Persecution complex

Yup! Batshit crazy.

[Kalopin]

Hm... Let's see...

1. Delusions of grandeur
2. Messiah complex
3. Persecution complex

Yup! Batshit crazy.

[Is this really too difficult for you to understand?]-
Presently, students are being taught that the NMSZ was the cause of the 1811-12 earthquakes... The facts are that- there were many earthquakes, eruptions, strange weather patterns,... [wars, plagues,...] all over the globe, at the same instance a sungrazer comet was described as being larger than the Sun. These events all took place in late November/early December 1811...and have been recorded...and is available for anyone to look up...and study... [is simple!]

[Why don't you disregard my mental state and study the facts?...]

Would it be too difficult to discuss the actual science and the actual historical accounts involved?

[...or is it more fun for you to make character judgments,insulting accusations, personal attacks,... to make you feel better?, because, maybe your I.Q. is lacking the proper amount of brain cells? :-]

[Do you wish me to apologize for all the passed on ignorance?, throughout the years, teaching generation after generation what is just a bunch of b.s., assumptions, "drummed up" beliefs, false conclusions,... using unproven, untested, and even unexplained sources, as bad dating processes, misunderstood faulty physics, misinterpreted accounts,...

Look, the truth is the truth, the facts are the facts, it is not my fault that so many got it so wrong, but I now offer you this chance to go through all the actual science, history, accounts,... and to understand, determine its accuracy and to correct a great deal science and history. So, once you realize what had actually occurred, would you be willing to help correct curriculum?]
[...if not, well then...
fa-
q!...;-]

[Minimalist]

Did the NMSZ also cause all these eruptions, quakes, and all the strange weather?
Did the NMSZ cause the mini-ice age from 1811-1817?
Did the NMSZ freeze Napoleon's army?

Oh, FFS, the Little Ice Age had been going on for centuries. This is what I mean about you. You shoot an arrow into a barn and draw a bullseye around it.

The Year Without A Summer (1816) is a result of the eruption of Mt. Tambor in in April, 1815. Hey! Maybe that caused the rain storms that messed up Napoleon's artillery at Waterloo two months later. Why don't you find a comet to blame that on?