The Iliad: How Much Fact - How Much Fiction

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:50 pm

To be honest I've long dismissed the whole Atlantis myth as a myth untill I watched a BBC documentary about it ,analysing all the sourcesand possible explanations .It became quickly clear that the story indeed was based on realevents .Plenty is found on the net too.I guess the following link summarizes the Thera Santorini link pretty well : http://www.decadevolcano.net/santorini/atlantis.htm
Also googling on Akrotiri helps as it is the site on santorini which is still excavated .

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:52 pm

nah i don't buy it
its not based on Thera
not by a long shot

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:00 pm

Wooo-hoo, this is indeed a hot topic. Min, we haven't even gotten to Homer yet. I'm all for lettin' it run. Good lively discussion.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:14 pm

Atlantis: the Myth

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The story of the Isle of Atlantis first occurs in Plato's two dialogues the "Timaeus" and the "Citius." Plato's story centers around Solon, a great Greek legislator and poet who journeyed to Egypt some 150 years earlier. While in the Egyptian city of Sais Solon received the story of Atlantis from priests. The priests respected Solon's reputation and cordially welcomed him. They also respected the Athenians, whom they regarded as kinsmen, because they believed their deity Neith to be the same deity as the Greeks called Athena. Therefore, she was believed to be the patroness and protectoress of both Greece and Egypt.

The story which the priests told Solon was unknown to him. According to ancient Egyptian temple records the Athenians fought an aggressive war against the rulers of Atlantis some nine thousand years earlier and won.

These ancient and powerful kings or rulers of Atlantis had formed a confederation by which they controlled Atlantis and other islands as well. They began a war from their homeland in the Atlantic Ocean and sent fighting troops to Europe and Asia. Against this attack the men of Athens formed a coalition from all over Greece to halt it. When this coalition met difficulties their allies deserted them and the Athenians fought on alone to defeat the Atlantian rulers. They stopped an invasion of their own country as well as freeing Egypt and eventually every country under the control of the rulers of Atlantis.

Shortly after their victory, even before the Athenians could return home, Atlantis suffered catastrophic earthquakes and floods until it disappeared beneath the sea. All of the brave men were swallowed up in one day and night of horror according to legend. This is why the Egyptians were ever grateful to the Athenians.

Seeing as how Athens only began to coalesce into a city in 1,400 BC and the process was not complete until several centuries later, this seems to be a great deal of b.s. But, it's the myth.

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:16 pm

According to ancient Egyptian temple records the Athenians fought an aggressive war against the rulers of Atlantis some nine thousand years earlier and won.

A wee bit of a stretch, that 9000 years..not to mention the reliability of
the "records," as well as the handed-down nature of the accounts in Plato.

As to the seafaring prowess of the Atlantians,
I read recently that oldest boat of any kind that has survived is from the Netherlands, 7400 BC, and it's only a small dugout.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:18 pm

I read recently that oldest boat of any kind that has survived is from the Netherlands, 7400 BC, and it's only a small dugout.

I would assume that most boats were made of wood and I would not expect that to survive for long. Of course, if someone were to find a fiberglass hull with Atlantean markings it would really shake things up!

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:20 pm

http://www.earth-history.com/Atlantis/

" During the whole summer, the sun hid itself behind the clouds, as if unwilling to shine upon the earth. In the middle of the quietude, the earth began to quake as if it was dying. The mountains opened up to vomit forth fire and flames. Some of them sunk under the earth while in other places mountains rose out of the plains... Atland disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over the hills and dales that everything was buried under the seas. Many people were swallowed up by the earth, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the waters."

I've looked for an exact quote by Platos' sources and it's tiring trying to wade through so much Atlantis junk. This quote is reputed to be from a very old source describing the event. Judge for yourselves but I don't think I'm gonna look any more tonight.

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:28 pm

Quote:
I read recently that oldest boat of any kind that has survived is from the Netherlands, 7400 BC, and it's only a small dugout.

I would assume that most boats were made of wood and I would not expect that to survive for long. Of course, if someone were to find a fiberglass hull with Atlantean markings it would really shake things up!
_________________

I just thought I'd bring up the troublesome issue of archaeological evidence.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:35 pm

Good point Stan, archaeological evidence is no problem for me.

So, just for the record, I think the Minoan civilization fits the bill perfectly, and Santorini the cause for its' demise.

I have never thought that there was a land mass in the Atlantic ocean with an advanced(for it's day) culture.

Still don't

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:43 pm

the Atlantis story is just another retelling of the great deluge myth
(that woke Arch up eh)
Plato knew that
its why he put Poseidon in the role of flood destroyer which in the usual greek flood myth "deucalion" it was taken by Zeus

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:20 pm

Plato was a philosopher.

Most of them are nuts anyway.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:30 pm

So, just for the record, I think the Minoan civilization fits the bill perfectly, and Santorini the cause for its' demise.

Minoan culture revived to a degree after the blast before it was stomped out by invaders....probably Mycenean Greeks.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:04 pm

the minoan culture wasn't destroyed by a flood sent by poseidon
it was a fecking big volcano
you guys arent listening
what is the difference between the elements of Platos Atlantis and the elements of the Hebrew biblical flood story

these stories are absolute contemporaries of each other
one told from the Greek perspective and one told from the Hebrew

haven't any of you read Gilgamesh or Atrahasis or the flood story?
they all describe a bit about a global maritime culture being destroyed by a flood sent by a guy with a trident y'know who has an eye for a symbol and is word for word the same as the Noah story in places
and its a lot older than either

the original story isn't based on Santorini because when it was written santorini was uninhabited
doh

Barracuda · Post by **Barracuda** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:13 pm

Hi, Frank!

I still read the forum every day, but not much into discussion on religion.

Besides I have been working on something else. A friend kayaked from Okinawa to the main Island, and inspired me to start planning a sea kayaking trip from Athens, Greece to Izmir, Turkey. With maybe side trips to visit to Hersalick (Troy) and Ephesus!

Just daydreaming, but it does seems feasible....

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:19 pm

it was a fecking big volcano

Tsunamis smashed their ports and their fleet and would have played havoc with all Bronze Age Cultures in the region.

When the bible was finally written down, a thousand years later, they incorporated the tale of a flood but, having no experience with the sea (they were, after all a land-locked little country) they converted the waves to rain.