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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:32 am
by Minimalist
Yep. Who's to say?

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historica ... ration.htm

In a discovery with profound implications for the study of early human history, scientists digging in the republic of Georgia have found 1.7-million-year-old fossil human skulls that show clear signs of African ancestry and so may represent the species that first migrated out of Africa.

The two relatively complete skulls, being described today in the journal Science, begin to put a face, in a sense, to the ancestors who responded to opportunity and necessity by leaving Africa and spreading out over much of the rest of the world. Many paleoanthropologists hailed the discovery as a major advance in their field, and said the skulls were probably the most ancient undisputed human fossils outside Africa.

"It's the first good physical evidence we have of the identity of the first emigrants out of Africa," said Dr. Ian Tattersall, a paleontologist and evolutionary biologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

1.7 million years ago is a looonnngggg time.

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:04 pm
by Minimalist
Here's an intriguing idea.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/inter ... nkaus.html

new study of human fossils asks, what if we are the odd ones?

Most people think of humans as the top, the apex of the family tree. But new research suggests this quintessentially human infatuation with ourselves may have impaired our judgment. Erik Trinkaus, a paleontologist and Neandertal expert at Washington University in St. Louis, believes that modern human features are unusual enough, compared with ancestral members of the genus Homo, to make us a side branch of the family tree

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:35 pm
by Starflower
My personal favorite part of the article. :lol:
The whole purpose [of the article] was to get some balance into all of this. Whereas if you look at what people do--and you see this in the professional literature and you see this in the media--the balance is very much toward documenting and sometimes trying to explain why Neanderthals are weird. I hate to say it, but I think we're the weirdoes
Weirdo, moi, okay but how did he know :wink: As one weirdo to the rest, I'm so proud :lol:

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:27 pm
by Minimalist
How're you feeling, my dear?

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:53 am
by Starflower
Minimalist wrote:How're you feeling, my dear?
I have changed my name to Dave and am now wrapped in lucite and propped up in the safest corner of the house. :roll: (Had to use my Jedi mind powers to post today and they are not working right) :lol:



And then on topic
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... umans.html
The first comparison of human and Neanderthal DNA shows that the two lineages diverged about 400,000 years ago and that Neanderthals may have had more DNA in common with chimps than with modern humans.

There is ongoing debate over whether the Neanderthals were a separate species, Homo neanderthalensis, or a subspecies of Homo sapiens. The first Neanderthals are thought to have emerged about 350,000 years ago, so the new findings from this DNA analysis strongly favour the theory that modern humans and Neanderthals share a common ancestor but are not more closely related than that.

Genetic analysis of Neanderthals is very tricky because mere fragments of nuclear DNA have been recoverable from fossils. Previous analyses have focused on mitochondrial DNA samples, which survive better.

James Noonan at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, US, and colleagues compared human, chimpanzee and Neanderthal nuclear DNA samples. The newly compiled DNA dataset was derived from the remains of a 45,000-year-old Neanderthal fossil.
“This is a hint of exciting things to come as more Neanderthal sequence is produced,” says David Haussler at the University of California, Santa Cruz, US.
So has anyone correlated all this different research being done around the country and seen if it is all pointing in the same direction?

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:52 am
by Minimalist
I have changed my name to Dave and am now wrapped in lucite and propped up in the safest corner of the house. (Had to use my Jedi mind powers to post today and they are not working right)


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At least you were paying attention!

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:25 pm
by Beagle
Whew... :shock: . We were worried about the girl for awhile.

Ok, old news printed again. Why - I don't know. Neandertal/HS split 400,000ya. Down from 800,000 three years ago. Still moving in the right direction. :lol:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... thals.html

From The Daily Grail:

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:20 am
by Minimalist
Time to fire up this dispute again!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6099422.stm
Only a handful of modern human remains older than 28,000 years old are known from Europe.

Erik Trinkaus from Washington University in St Louis and colleagues obtained radiocarbon dates directly from the fossils and analysed their anatomical form.

The results showed that the fossils were 30,000 years old and had the diagnostic features of modern humans (Homo sapiens).

But Professor Trinkaus and his colleagues argue, controversially, that the bones also display features that were characteristic of our evolutionary cousins, the Neanderthals (Homo neanderthalensis).

Neanderthals appear in the European fossil record about 400,000 years ago. At their peak, these squat, physically powerful hunters dominated a wide range, spanning Britain and Iberia in the west to Israel in the south and Uzbekistan in the east.

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:11 pm
by Barracuda
Here is another link to the same story. Seems the idea of Neanderthal HSS interbreeding will not go away.

Isn't all the DNA evidence based on maternal DNA? What if Neanderthal traits were only passed from father to son, for some reason?

What if only the male offspring were fertile?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... als_2.html

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:19 pm
by Minimalist
What if there are holes in the models that geneticists have created?

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:20 pm
by stan
I think this is a significant part of the story:
The bottom line? The Pestera Muierii bones are "basically modern human fossils with these characteristics that are very easy to derive from Neanderthals through some kind of interbreeding, but are very difficult to derive -- if not impossible -- from what we know of the anatomies of early modern humans out of Africa," Trinkaus said.
(not dna related, though)

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:23 pm
by marduk
you know when you breed a pure bred alsatian with a pure bred wolf and the offspring looks half wolf and half alsatian
what happens then when you breed the offspring with the next 3000 generations with only pure bred alsatians
how many people would really care or notice that the animal was once half wolf
and what difference would it make to the latest descendant anyway
know what I mean

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:28 pm
by Barracuda
Because you could always get a throw back to the wolf, if its in the blood

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:29 pm
by stan
Image

Trick or treat!

You can take humans out of the paleolithic, but you can't take the paleolithic out of humans!

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:39 pm
by marduk
Because you could always get a throw back to the wolf, if its in the blood
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yes but which ones the throwback