Inteligent Design

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:22 am

here are some quotes from the foreward of charles hapgood's book, 'path of the pole'. the forward was written by f.n. earll, dept.of geology, montanacollege of mineral science and technology.

"A reaction came, of course, and largely it came from men who under ordinary circumstances ar both rational and competant, ut their reaction could hardly be described as rational; hysterical would be a better description."

"One observed, indignantly, that hapgood wasn't a geologist.. Admittedly this is a cardinal sin but hardly one punishable by scientific excommunication. Another cited, but failed to name, a scientist whose findings conflict with thoseof several world renowned authorities selected by hapgood as sources of technical data,, and used this lackof agreement as an incontrovertible condemnation of the entire book."

"The fact is that almost without exception Americans commenting onthe book couched their discussion in thick and unwarranted sarcasm, selecting trivia and factors not subject to vewrification as the bases for condemnation, seeking inthis way to avoid the basic issues."

"Only the Europeans were gracious enoughto be fair..."

"The plain fact is that the logic of allprevious theoriesof the earth's deformationis so obviously contrived, the holes are so gaping, that one is inclined to suspect that danger lurks there for the unwary."

all quotes taken from pages viii & ix.

don't hold science up tome or scientists until you get your own house inproper and honest order.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:44 am

You do understand that Hapgood wrote a very good book, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings or something which Hancock reviews in depth and generally approves.

Hapgood, however, went on to propose a theory (and not a scientific 'theory' such as evolution, but just a wild guess kind of theory which he called Earth Crust Displacement. In this theory he envsioned the crust of the earth sliding around the mantle so that Antarctica ended up at the south pole from the previously warmer zones it had been in.

Geologists do not accept such a theory....to put it mildly.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:19 am

The BBC weighs in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4879672.stm

The creature shares some characteristics with a fish; it has fins with webbing, and scales on its back.

But it also has many features in common with land animals. It has a flat crocodile-like head with eyes positioned on top and the beginnings of a neck - something not seen in fish.

"When we look inside the fin, we see a shoulder, we see an elbow, and we see an early version of a wrist, which is very similar to that of all animals that also walk on land," said Professor Shubin.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun May 28, 2006 1:05 pm

Thanks to new poster Doug Weller and his Hall of Ma'at site for this tale of Creationist morons being duped by a 1920's spark plug.

http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.ph ... cle&sid=77

"The Puzzle of Ancient Man" lecture is basically a summary of Chittick's book of the same title. Like the book, Chittick begins his lecture by presenting the Coso Artifact as evidence that ancient civilizations were extremely advanced. Presuming that it is an ancient spark plug, Chittick explains, "A spark plug is evidence of fairly sophisticated development. Reliable dates for such finds are difficult to obtain. However, it has been commonly assumed that formation of geodes requires significant amounts of time. Finding a spark plug in a rock considered to be very old would indeed give it the label of an out-of-place artifact. Evidence of advanced technology, like spark plugs, should not, according to evolutionism, be discovered in old rocks."

Stromberg asked Windham if he could identify the particular make of the spark plug. Windham replied he was certain that it was a 1920's era Champion spark plug. Stromberg was stunned by the collector's certainty, but Windham insisted that he had nailed the identification. Windham offered to send two identical spark plugs, the only possible but slight difference being the diameter of the packing nut at the base of the plug. Stromberg accepted Windham's offer and a few days later a package arrived in the mail.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun May 28, 2006 1:22 pm

well, are you going to finish the narrative?

i was supposed to get some of chittick's material but they never sent them to me but i have heard about the spark plug though i wouldn't place my arguments against intelligent ancient life upon one 'artifact'

i think Dick Teresi's book 'Lost Discoveries' provides ample evidence that ancient man was as intelligent, if not more, than modern man. if it weren't so, we wouldn't be staring at the sphynx, the pyramids or other ancient structures. nor would they have hot and cold running water long before the roman era.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun May 28, 2006 3:44 pm

I don't disagree with that notion, as you know, arch. I generally feel that what passes for history...particularly "pre-history" is a load of crap. As Napoleon said, "history is a lie agreed upon."

However, all of this stuff seriously pre-dates the bible.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:43 pm

I generally feel that what passes for history...particularly "pre-history" is a load of crap. As Napoleon said, "history is a lie agreed upon

i can agree with that

However, all of this stuff seriously pre-dates the bible.

it may pre-date the written word but noah and enoch, both righteous men pre-dated the written word as well thus the world was not without a witness for God. then we have adam, eve, and cain who also had direct contact with God thus they would be able to substantiate much.

of course for the unbeliever, this would be put down to 'fairy tales' but i don't buy into that assessment.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:38 pm

Fairy Tales....Can Come True......It Can Happen To You...If You're Young At Heart.

Arch, there was no Noah, no Adam, no Eve, No Cain, No Enoch and most of all, no God.

They did have a public relations company that wrote a few advertisements for them, however.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:53 pm

Arch, there was no Noah, no Adam, no Eve, No Cain, No Enoch and most of all, no God.

that is a matter of opinion by the way, can you describe the source of morality if there is no God? where would the concept come from if there is no higher moral standard to live by or follow?

evolution doesn't have it, thus the concept cannot be just a invention of man, who sat down one day and said, we need morality? where would the idea come from?

take flying for example, man's concept comes from watching the birds and then thinking, hmmm maybe man could do that. if there were no birds,no flying insects, etc. nothing to give the idea concerning flying then the concept would not have been thought of.

something has to proceed a concept for man to consider it.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:04 pm

Morality??? From your god?

The one who directed all those slaughters that you so willingly believe in?
The one who approves of slavery and stoning??

Let's see about your "morality", arch.

"GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

and on and on and on bloodbath after holy bloodbath. For myself, arch, I believe that all of the above is complete bullshit but as someone who believes it you have some pair of balls to speak about morality coming from such a source.

The world would have been much better off if your silly-ass shepherds had never dreamt up such a "god."

Leona Conner · Post by **Leona Conner** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:32 pm

Why can't you give credit to "good men"? Morality came about because humans agreed that certain things that were good and certain things were not good. They passed these along to their children and grandchildren. Eventually, the people with the best knowledge of good and evil became the spiritual leaders and shamans. We should have stopped there.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:35 pm

Let's see about your "morality", arch.

you are only looking at the resulting action not what has led up to this point. there is more involved than just the smiting but the smiting only serves your purpose. when you expand your analysis to include other factors, i.e. God's law, God's patience, etc then you may see the true picture of the morality of God.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:15 pm

God the psychopathic mass-murderer?

You make lots of excuses for murder.

No doubt about one thing.

You ARE a christian.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:05 pm

God the psychopathic mass-murderer

and you are in a position to make that judgment? your life has been such that it grants you special powers to make such decidons?

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:34 pm

How many ways are there to judge this?

With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

You can rationalize it so that it's okay. I suppose?

What kind of sick bastards would invent such a murderous god?