Philo's guide to decoding the Hebrew Bible

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:29 pm

It's the difference between self empowerment and giving your power away.

Religions, if they are to act as a political force (which Yahwehism and Christianity did) don't want a load of self empowered people walking around. So the idea is that you hand over your power and bow down to this mythical and sometimes tyranical godhead (like Yahweh was).

Shamanism is self empowerment. The Mystery initiations were also about self empowerment as they acted as a rite of passage into manhood for those who took part.

By the way, if the Jesus story is a development from the Hebrew scriptures, as Monk says, where is it that they explain how Yahweh changed his ways to become the God of Love? Did he change his mind? Did he have an epiphany and resolve to be nicer in future?

It's not at all clear whether Jesus's God is Yahweh Mark 2, or a new version entirely.

That's because, imo, this story, which incidentally puts the Jews in a terrible light, in no way derives from Jews or the Jewish people.

The Jesus story was written and composed in Europe, Egypt and Asia by people with Greek sounding names like Ignatius, Polycarp, Iranaeus and Eusebius - not one Jew among them. Even 'Paul' if he existed, was Roman.

They just took their Mediterranean myths about dying and resurrecting godmen and invented another one and planted him in Israel.

I guess we'll never know why.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:48 pm

Thomas Jefferson said it best, Ish.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson,

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:34 am

I think that is Cyrus big innovation. He figured out that he could get people to cede their countries to him by manipulating their superstitions

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:20 am

I do think that the impression of Yahweh as a “God of War” is a bit off.
The major volume of the OT writings are post Exodus, and deal with the trials and tribulations of the nation if Israel.
And that leads to that impression, in spite of it being a relativity short period of time.
But the time period covered in Genesis is much longer and shows a different side of his personality.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:25 am

kbs2244 wrote:I
But the time period covered in Genesis is much longer and shows a different side of his personality.

You mean that nice, gentle side .... like asking Abraham to sacrifice his son to him?

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:34 am

Let's see, prior to Exodus God drowns everybody, destroys the Tower of Babel and 'confuses the Language', curses all women to have pain in childbirth, curses all mankind because they ate his 'special fruit', destroys Soddim and Gomorrah and turns Lots wife into a pillar of salt. You want us to believe that this is his 'good' side?

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:50 am

Last night, while reading through Redford's book I came to a section in which he describes a number of Canaanite deities who were incorporated into the Egyptian pantheon during the Imperial period of the 18th and 19th dynasties. Redford cites:

Ba'al
Astarte
Anat
Reshef
Horon
and Qadesha

Looks like 'yahweh' didn't make the grade!

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:57 am

Lewis Black explains 'god' (" The Old Testament God was a prick") about 2:40 into this clip.

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=EWqtpqQjNug

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:06 am

seeker wrote: You want us to believe that this is his 'good' side?

Makes you wonder what he's like on a bad day - when his hangover and throbbing piles wake him up really early, and then he trips over the dog on his way to the kitchen only to find that he's completely run out of milk.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:27 am

Minimalist wrote:Last night, while reading through Redford's book ....

Which book are you reading, Min?

I'm thoroughly enjoying Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman. I think it should be required reading for all Christians.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:33 am

"Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times."

I just reached the section on the Sea Peoples. (Seeker and I had a great discussion about them at JNE."

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:14 pm

Ishtar wrote:
seeker wrote: You want us to believe that this is his 'good' side?
Makes you wonder what he's like on a bad day - when his hangover and throbbing piles wake him up really early, and then he trips over the dog on his way to the kitchen only to find that he's completely run out of milk.

I'm pretty sure that's why he created Benny Hill

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:21 pm

Minimalist wrote:"Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times."

I just reached the section on the Sea Peoples. (Seeker and I had a great discussion about them at JNE."

Funny you mention that, i'm re-reading The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel Book by Thomas L. Thompson and just got to the bit where he discussed the Palestinians and Canaanites. He makes the point that the term Canaanites appears only in the bible as a reference to a people (outside references to Canaan only refer to it as a Geographical region like Anatolia). Apparently the only known people who ever used it to refer to themselves were Jewish merchants in 4th century CE North Africa.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:54 pm

One of these days I have to read Thompson.

Dever, in "What Did The Biblical Writers Know...." excoriated Thompson for 90 pages, it almost made the book unreadable. Now, of course, Dever has come around to the Minimalist position. Should be interesting.

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:14 pm

Thompson has some great insights. In fact he does a great job of identifying major themes in the bible and putting them into political contexts.