Ancient Agriculture
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
Actually DB air fright is pretty common right now.
But it is just to expensive for everyday use. The cheapest per pound cost for long range shipping is, and always has been, by boat.
You just cannot move as much for less man power and fuel cost any other way.
If they are in a hurry for Japanese cars on the Eastern U S coast, they go by ship to LA and then by rail. (Rail is the second most bang for the buck.) Otherwise, they go by ship all the way to Tampa or Savanna., and then rail. (The Southern ports have better weather and lower labor costs)
There is just no way to justify the cost of an airplane, even if it was a seaplane. An airplane just costs to much to get a pound of freight off the ground.
The current world wide cargo moving systems are pretty efficient and practical. Security costs and infrastructure improvement costs will not be enough to change it much. With modern computerized bar code and radio frequency identification techniques, one guard can 100 percent check out an entire ship in a shift.
This is the world I just retired from. In spite of all the scare stories on the TV news and campaign speeches, I have very large doubts that anything dangerous is going to show up in a “developed” country from an “undeveloped” country without being tracked and disarmed.
In spite of the huge volumes involved, the systems involved are just too good. It is a small thing to tack a security system onto a billing system. And, believe me, the billing systems work like a charm.
But it is just to expensive for everyday use. The cheapest per pound cost for long range shipping is, and always has been, by boat.
You just cannot move as much for less man power and fuel cost any other way.
If they are in a hurry for Japanese cars on the Eastern U S coast, they go by ship to LA and then by rail. (Rail is the second most bang for the buck.) Otherwise, they go by ship all the way to Tampa or Savanna., and then rail. (The Southern ports have better weather and lower labor costs)
There is just no way to justify the cost of an airplane, even if it was a seaplane. An airplane just costs to much to get a pound of freight off the ground.
The current world wide cargo moving systems are pretty efficient and practical. Security costs and infrastructure improvement costs will not be enough to change it much. With modern computerized bar code and radio frequency identification techniques, one guard can 100 percent check out an entire ship in a shift.
This is the world I just retired from. In spite of all the scare stories on the TV news and campaign speeches, I have very large doubts that anything dangerous is going to show up in a “developed” country from an “undeveloped” country without being tracked and disarmed.
In spite of the huge volumes involved, the systems involved are just too good. It is a small thing to tack a security system onto a billing system. And, believe me, the billing systems work like a charm.
I dont argue with the numbers presented, but what's missing is the cost of the *infrastructure* supported by the tax payers. I have suggested that the government take over the RR right of way the same as they have the airports, waterways, & highways, and then open this up to the competition of whoever can provide the equipment that can run on the rails.
Under the same kind of inspection we have for trucks, ships, barges, & planes to ensure safe reliable operation. The idea has gone no where that I know of.
"All roads lead to Rome." and as you mite expect, there came a time when the condition of the port at Ostia, the roads, and the viaducts all declined. The homeless quit sleeping under the viaducts cause they leaked too much. Progress of a sort.
It wouldnt be hard to argue that graft and corruption in the maintenance of the infrastructure became common knowledge. Cato built a political career out of doing roadwork on time and under budget, but by then it was too late to save the republic, and it took a tyrant like Augustus to clean it up. Too many lobbyists were enriching too many senators.
Same deal in China, where the roads and the Grand Canal deteriorated to the point that troops could not be moved to a trouble spot in time for civil order to be maintained, and then the whole empire came apart.
Altho- it'd be interesting to do a social/psychological analysis to understand how China re-established empire 10 times in 2500 years, and not even the Romans could impose hegemony over the whole of Europe.
I think it had something to do with the fact that everyone in China could understand the words of Confucius, but only the literati in the Roman system could read the Greek of Aristotle.
In any case, what we have now is so different, that while you havta worry about panic spreading uncontrollably on the Internet, there are too many unknown and ambiguous factors to make a reasonable man think he knows what is really going on. Both China & Rome had leaders emerge at critical times to pull the fat from the fire.
Under the same kind of inspection we have for trucks, ships, barges, & planes to ensure safe reliable operation. The idea has gone no where that I know of.
"All roads lead to Rome." and as you mite expect, there came a time when the condition of the port at Ostia, the roads, and the viaducts all declined. The homeless quit sleeping under the viaducts cause they leaked too much. Progress of a sort.
It wouldnt be hard to argue that graft and corruption in the maintenance of the infrastructure became common knowledge. Cato built a political career out of doing roadwork on time and under budget, but by then it was too late to save the republic, and it took a tyrant like Augustus to clean it up. Too many lobbyists were enriching too many senators.
Same deal in China, where the roads and the Grand Canal deteriorated to the point that troops could not be moved to a trouble spot in time for civil order to be maintained, and then the whole empire came apart.
Altho- it'd be interesting to do a social/psychological analysis to understand how China re-established empire 10 times in 2500 years, and not even the Romans could impose hegemony over the whole of Europe.
I think it had something to do with the fact that everyone in China could understand the words of Confucius, but only the literati in the Roman system could read the Greek of Aristotle.
In any case, what we have now is so different, that while you havta worry about panic spreading uncontrollably on the Internet, there are too many unknown and ambiguous factors to make a reasonable man think he knows what is really going on. Both China & Rome had leaders emerge at critical times to pull the fat from the fire.
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.
You know, the Chinese are just different. It may have to do with there being so many of them. (I read somewhere that soon the country with the most English speakers in the world will be China.)
They think in multi-generation terms. When given the chance they will go for broke as individual businessmen, but always with an eye for the future.
(Short term pain for long term gain is not a common Western belief system.)
When the RR co.s brought them over as labors it was a disaster. They wouldn’t stay on the payroll.
Who would want to wash out the dirty underwear and pants of a bunch of grubby RR labor’s? Guess who. Why? Because it gave them a sense of control over their future.
I think there are, even today, dry cleaning establishments, in Denver that trace their founding back to when the Union Pacific was coming through.
They think in multi-generation terms. When given the chance they will go for broke as individual businessmen, but always with an eye for the future.
(Short term pain for long term gain is not a common Western belief system.)
When the RR co.s brought them over as labors it was a disaster. They wouldn’t stay on the payroll.
Who would want to wash out the dirty underwear and pants of a bunch of grubby RR labor’s? Guess who. Why? Because it gave them a sense of control over their future.
I think there are, even today, dry cleaning establishments, in Denver that trace their founding back to when the Union Pacific was coming through.
Agreed that the Chinese are different. But going all the way back to Kucha, when Aryans and Chinese began doing business with each other, there was a degree of mutual respect, and a mutual agreement that the barbarians who tried to prey on them both were animals.
I got another insight on that tonite on the Tavis Smily interview with Lisa See, who just published "Peony in Love" about the "lovesick Maidens" of 17th century china, and the hugely popular Opera that resulted.
Chinese or European opera is not my thing, but I'm struck by the fact that only these two gene pools produced this artform that required such a high degree of organization.
The subject matter would make Jane Austin green with envy. Lisa was right, that what they did with footbinding was deplorable, but that's way ahead of clitorectomies.
Lisa, BTW, comes from a Chinese family, but is ash blonde with fair skin. Dont look chinese at all. She mite be a Tocharian throwback, but prolly dont know anything about them. I'll try to contact her.... faint hope.
I dont regard the Chinese as inscrutable at all. But then, I'm not Christian, and have read Xuan Zang, Lao Tzu, Sun Tsu, & Confucius.
Their habit of aborting girls may pay off if their economy takes over a large part of the global economy. They then can hire women from other races to be implanted with whatever combination of DNA they want to carry on the family name.
Of all the non-Aryan cultures, China is one of the few where women have always been a force to be reckoned with. Lotsa times, the emperor was just the front man for the harem, and they assasinated a lot of them. The power of women required men to be more self controlled, and the Mosou are one of the few truly remaining ancient matriarchies.
I got another insight on that tonite on the Tavis Smily interview with Lisa See, who just published "Peony in Love" about the "lovesick Maidens" of 17th century china, and the hugely popular Opera that resulted.
Chinese or European opera is not my thing, but I'm struck by the fact that only these two gene pools produced this artform that required such a high degree of organization.
The subject matter would make Jane Austin green with envy. Lisa was right, that what they did with footbinding was deplorable, but that's way ahead of clitorectomies.
Lisa, BTW, comes from a Chinese family, but is ash blonde with fair skin. Dont look chinese at all. She mite be a Tocharian throwback, but prolly dont know anything about them. I'll try to contact her.... faint hope.
I dont regard the Chinese as inscrutable at all. But then, I'm not Christian, and have read Xuan Zang, Lao Tzu, Sun Tsu, & Confucius.
Their habit of aborting girls may pay off if their economy takes over a large part of the global economy. They then can hire women from other races to be implanted with whatever combination of DNA they want to carry on the family name.
Of all the non-Aryan cultures, China is one of the few where women have always been a force to be reckoned with. Lotsa times, the emperor was just the front man for the harem, and they assasinated a lot of them. The power of women required men to be more self controlled, and the Mosou are one of the few truly remaining ancient matriarchies.
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.
http://wimmera.yourguide.com.au/detail. ... ry=science
Though best saved for another post, most folks would be surprised and alarmed to know what the giant agri-business corps , like Monsanto, have been doing to the genetic base of our food.
I'm happy to see that science realizes the importance of preserving the gene pool.
For over a decade, there has been a trend toward the preservation of the gene pool that we derive our modern food from. These scientists are retrieving the root origins of wheat. Many gardeners in the Americas have been preserving the old seed varieties of food for a long time. It's called the Heirloom varieties. I still grow some every year.We are on a hunt for genes; for lost genetic resources that agricultural scientists say will be crucial for the world to keep feeding itself despite climate change and deteriorating agricultural landscapes.
And so this small band of genetic detectives is scouring the birthplace of agriculture, the Caucuses Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and parts of Russia for remnant on-farm storages, and for ancestral wild grasses from which modern crops like wheat and barley were first bred some 5000 years ago.
Though best saved for another post, most folks would be surprised and alarmed to know what the giant agri-business corps , like Monsanto, have been doing to the genetic base of our food.
I'm happy to see that science realizes the importance of preserving the gene pool.
And over here Beag the EU has been restrictiong the production of crops they have not 'approved'.
An example; I cannot legally plant acorns from an Oak tree in my garden as only those in France have been 'approved'.
An example; I cannot legally plant acorns from an Oak tree in my garden as only those in France have been 'approved'.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
That isn't the reason Beag, your point is valid of course as until the EU was formed you could not bring in plants from countries in Europe that now you can do so!
In the UK we used to have a variety of Bush Tomato that I grew, then suddenly every variety of food crop has to be evaluated by the inevitable commision trying to justify its exisistance. As the Tomato I mentioned was not grown on a commercial scale the cost of evaluation was prohibitive. Many varieties that had been grown for centuries suddenly became illegal, you could grow them yourself if you saved the seed but you were not supposed to sell the produce nor give it away and to do so with the seed was also illegal.
Quercus Robur, the 'English Oak' is grown by individuals here of course, but the French grow it in plantations to be cut at about 80 yrs old. Certain ones were decided as representing all that was wanted in the Oak and now all Oaks must be grown from acorns of those trees.
Genetic madness!
In the UK we used to have a variety of Bush Tomato that I grew, then suddenly every variety of food crop has to be evaluated by the inevitable commision trying to justify its exisistance. As the Tomato I mentioned was not grown on a commercial scale the cost of evaluation was prohibitive. Many varieties that had been grown for centuries suddenly became illegal, you could grow them yourself if you saved the seed but you were not supposed to sell the produce nor give it away and to do so with the seed was also illegal.
Quercus Robur, the 'English Oak' is grown by individuals here of course, but the French grow it in plantations to be cut at about 80 yrs old. Certain ones were decided as representing all that was wanted in the Oak and now all Oaks must be grown from acorns of those trees.
Genetic madness!
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Rokcet Scientist
