Off Topic

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:11 am

Rokcet Scientist wrote:And leave the rest of the world to clean up the mess you left behind?
I don't think so.
You started it, you finish it!

I tend to agree R/S. I don't like the pretenses used to get us there, but now that we're there, we darn well better finish the job or loose all future credibility and capability to ever intervene in a bad situation again.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:40 am

The question Monk is can the job ever be finished, knowing the history of the area I think not.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:38 am

Continuing my comments from the other post, we are now up to 5 doctors arrested on bombing charges, all aliens and some here as refugees, is this not the ultimate betrayal?
Our new PM has decreed that these people must not be described as Muslim terrorists nor must Islam be mentioned, so now they are 'ordinary' terrorists and are denied what little legitimacy their religion might grant them.
Clever, our bosses, aren't they?

Rokcet Scientist · Post by **Rokcet Scientist** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:11 am

As long as the hundreds of millions of so-called 'normal' muslims are so deafeningly silent about those relatively (?) few that rape their religion – and wreck our society – we have no choice but to be suspicious about all of those hundreds of millions of muslims.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:12 am

Quite! I'm sick and tired of hearing British Moslems who know these people saying, ' he's a good boy, visits the Mosque regularly, respectful to his elders, etc,'.
Blair got Butt out of Guantanamo because he was 'innocent' and now the guy is making money writing anti- jihadist propaganda 'cos he's seen the light!
Halleluja!

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:02 am

Pulling back and looking at all this from a "Big Picture;" "Flow of Time;" "Currents in History" point of view, is it possible that Islam is now going through he same thing than Christianity went through during the Inquisition?

We have a fanatical religious minority, feared by the common believers, but backed by some governmental believers, bent on a world wide convert or die program.

In both cases, hasn’t a basically good idea been subverted to a selfish end?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:11 am

Yesses all down the line. But remember this is not the first time that Islam has attempted to take over Europe. One of their greatest weaknesses has always been that they prefer to fight each other rather than us.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:13 am

we darn well better finish the job or loose all future credibility and capability to ever intervene in a bad situation again.

On other boards I always ask the Imperialists if their goal is to stick a company of marines in every third-world shithole to "finish the job." They have more shitholes than we have marines.

Few ever answer the question.

Fewer still ever answer the follow-up question of, "why don't you volunteer to help Bush out by signing up and going over there?"

We "won" the war. We cannot dictate the peace. We should have learned that, already.

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:14 am

Well... It's not like "we" don't like to fight among ourselves.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:26 am

True KB, but historically Islam is split by religious and clan loyalties that has prevented cohesive efforts.
On your point about shit holes Min, the BIG mistake that GW and his advisors made over Iraq is that Islam does not want democracy, it wants theocracy.
Before the door is shut behind our forces the Kurds will be off on their own, the Shia in the south will form some form of confederation with Iran and Saudi will support the Sunni and the Christians will probably be slaughtered.
Grim, but historically normal for that part of the world I'm afraid.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:31 am

Digit wrote:Our new PM has decreed that these people must not be described as Muslim terrorists nor must Islam be mentioned, so now they are 'ordinary' terrorists and are denied what little legitimacy their religion might grant them.

They didn't take the same tact with the Irish. How does calling them Islamic legitimize their actions? This makes no sense?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:37 am

Minimalist wrote:On other boards I always ask the Imperialists if their goal is to stick a company of marines in every third-world shithole to "finish the job." They have more shitholes than we have marines.

Don't worry Min, we only stick our noses in when "american interests" are at stake. We all know that equates to "financial interests".

We will never solve the internal bickering in Iraq nor should we try. We just need to give them best chance possible to survive a year or two as a stable government when we pull out. Problem is, those "american interests" are still there.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:59 am

We knew the IRA terrorists as IRA terrorists as they were following an IRA political agenda. In the same manner we refer to Palastinian terrorrists with no mention of their being Moslem or Christian because they are following a basically political agenda.
The current crop of arrests have produced Iraqis, Jordanians, Indians others as yet unknown.
Those prepared to admit their guilt, very few, claim to be following an Islamic religious agenda, therefore, following previous nomenclature, they are Islamic terrorists, and Gordon Brown can re-brand them any way he likes, people will still see them in the same light.
A rose by any name etc.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:25 am

On your point about shit holes Min, the BIG mistake that GW and his advisors made over Iraq is that Islam does not want democracy, it wants theocracy.

He WAS told, Digit. He just chose not to listen.

As Monk says (and I agree completely) complicating the task were those American (a/k/a "oil") interests.

WE maintain a solid relationship with the Saudis who are every bit as fucked up a country as Iran when it comes to religious authorities. They have oil....we buy it. Money talks, bullshit walks. Why we figured that the same would not be true in Iraq is beyond me.

Somehow, Cheney and Halliburton saw an opportunity for a killing!

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:49 am

Makes you wonder why these people waste money on hiring experts doesn't it Min?