Paleolithic Channel settlements?

[Charlie Hatchett]

[...] It's the remnants entering the Earth's atmosphere that would cause the fire, flooding and direct damage. The super nova in question was 240 light years away.

Charlie, a supernova at 240 lightyears distance (which is extremely close in astronomical terms) would still be 240 x 9,5 billion = 2.280 billion miles away! If it took the light 240 years to get here – at the speed of light: 195,000 miles per second – how long do you think it would take for actual matter to get here? In fact, matter would probably still be underway for another couple million years before it got even near our solar system. And the odds that it would hit earth is smaller than the odds that a piece of an exploding melon in Europe would hit you – in Texas – in the face!
Forget the supernova theory. It is so unlikely it isn't even funny.

Now, all that is not to say there couldn't have been astronomical debris hitting earth, tilting the climate. That's happened throughout earth's history of course. It's almost common.
But it's got nothing to do with supernovas.

I think I'll continue analyzing the predictive value of Firestone's (Nuclear scientist with U.S. Dept. of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory) hypothesis.

You asked: “If it took the light 240 years to get here – at the speed of light: 195,000 miles per second – how long do you think it would take for actual matter to get here?”.

Ca. 7000 years, by earth's clock.

[Digit]

Whatever the cause of the melting I'm rather surprised that Doggerland has suddenly become headline news over here.
For the benefit of 'yo Jonny furriners', some back ground.
A brief examination of a marine chart will show an area of shallow water marked as 'The Dogger Bank'.
For many years it has been a favorite area for fishing for flat fish and the trawls have been bringing up such things as Mammoth tusks ever since.
In more recent times the fishermen have been logging the individual sites so that the area of Doggerland is fairly well known. Holland has a museum dedicated to the finds.
A few years ago a Scuba diver reached into a hole to catch a lobster and brought up flint tools. This changed the attitude of palaeontologists towards the area.
The N.Sea has been extensively mapped in recent years by the oil companies and that, along with the bones recovered, show that Doggerland was as large as England!
Recent investigations have found sunken forests that show the inundation was rapid but creeping, remains of habitation sites, and quite a lot of artifacts.

[Rokcet Scientist]

You asked: “If it took the light 240 years to get here – at the speed of light: 195,000 miles per second – how long do you think it would take for actual matter to get here?”.

Ca. 7000 years, by earth's clock.

How so, Charlie? The speed of light is absolute. The speed of matter is not. To the contrary. Do you know the speed of that particular matter?

Another problem is that supernovas don't discharge matter . . . They only discharge gas and charged – but massless – particles. No tangible matter.
So astronomical debris that hits earth can be from a multitude of origins, but not from supernovas.

[Rokcet Scientist]

In more recent times the fishermen have been logging the individual sites so that the area of Doogerland is fairly well known.

Very well known! The Doggersbank – and the entire southern half of the North Sea has been mapped very precisely. Not just by – and for – fishermen, but by the navies of the UK, Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Germany, and Danmark, who have been sweeping the seabed hundreds of thousands of times to find and disarm millions of explosive mines that were laid there during 2 world wars.
Those navies still find and disarm dozens of mines each year, While the fishermen still 'catch' dozens of mammoth bones and tusks each year.

Holland has a museum dedicated to the finds.

The 'Naturalis' museum has many collections: http://www.naturalis.nl/asp/page.asp?al ... Fhome.html. Its collection of mammoth bones and tusks, at 7,500 items, is the largest in the world.

Recent investigations have found sunken forests that show the inundation was rapid but creeping, [...]

Which was it, Digit? Rapid or creeping?

[Digit]

The logical answer to that RS is both! I would suggest that the water level rose steadily till something gave way, then downstream it rose damn quick!
The mapping has been as you say, but the oil companies' mapping of course, was not surface mapping it was their radar and seismic surveys that revealed the ancient channels.
There has been a similar survey carrid out in Cardigan Bay, where I live, that may show some interesting results as well.
Plus a few million munitions as well!
Just to clarify the rapid but creeping RS, the figures I have seen state a steady rise in water level of as much as a metre/yr, which is rapid of course, but was fairly steady, which is what I meant by creeping.

[Digit]

There are some indirect effects, though, which are harder to evaluate: the possible effects on the Earth ozone layer is listed in the article above. Additionally, according to one calculation, the neutrino flux from a nearby supernova might heat up the Sun.

Best wishes,

Koji Mukai & Eric Christian
for Ask an Astrophysicist

[Forum Monk]

Whoa, hey! It just dawned on me...Digit...you quoted something using BBCode! I don't recall seeing that from you before.

[Digit]

Did I? I must be learning.

[Forum Monk]

Another problem is that supernovas don't discharge matter . . . They only discharge gas and charged – but massless – particles. No tangible matter.
So astronomical debris that hits earth can be from a multitude of origins, but not from supernovas.

Yes. Stars are gas, although they can also contain copious amounts of iron and carbon since most super-novae tend to be old stars. As I recall, the evidence that Firestone has found is actual particles of matter, embedded in ice, and mammoth tusks appearing blasted by pellets of matter. I need to review the article to be sure what his claim has been.

In any case, like the shotgun, the further away one is from the blast, the less damage you receive. The explosion spreads in all directions equally.

[Digit]

Right Monk, a star that has exploded has converted light weights, hydrogen for ex, into heavy particles, of which iron should be the most common, and in theory should result in a shock wave that would have some result on a planet's atmosphere.
Again, in theory the atmosphere of the affected planet should be compressed on the side that is struck.
So what should happen is first, the sun should be affected first by high speed particles, don't know about the planet though, then the more massive particles later. I don't think they would affect the sun but could have some nasty results on the planet.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Another problem is that supernovas don't discharge matter . . . They only discharge gas and charged – but massless – particles. No tangible matter.
So astronomical debris that hits earth can be from a multitude of origins, but not from supernovas.

Yes. Stars are gas, although they can also contain copious amounts of iron and carbon since most super-novae tend to be old stars. As I recall, the evidence that Firestone has found is actual particles of matter, embedded in ice, and mammoth tusks appearing blasted by pellets of matter. I need to review the article to be sure what his claim has been.

In any case, like the shotgun, the further away one is from the blast, the less damage you receive. The explosion spreads in all directions equally.

The force of a stellar explosion – a supernova – is sooo violent, with such unbelievable force (we cannot express it in numbers!), that matter is totally vaporized, into sub-atom-sized particles – smaller than molecules! Thus leaving no matter to be distributed.

[Digit]

From Wiki.

Source of heavy elements
Main article: Supernova nucleosynthesis
Supernovae are a key source of elements heavier than oxygen. These elements are produced by nuclear fusion (for iron-56 and lighter elements), and by nucleosynthesis during the supernova explosion for elements heavier than iron. Supernova are the most likely, although not undisputed, candidate sites for the r-process, which is a rapid form of nucleosynthesis that occurs under conditions of high temperature and high density of neutrons. The reactions produce highly unstable nuclei that are rich in neutrons. These forms are unstable and rapidly beta decay into more stable forms.

The r-process reaction, which is likely to occur in type II supernovae, produces about half of all the element abundance beyond iron, including plutonium, uranium and californium.[63] The only other major competing process for producing elements heavier than iron is the s-process in large, old red giant stars, which produces these elements much more slowly, and which cannot produce elements heavier than lead.[64]

[Forum Monk]

Really you beat me to it Digit. I was going to post the fact that many scientist believe that "the stuff of life"; i.e. elements heavier than helium, come from stars. Not all stellar explosions are super-novae. Stars such as Eta Carina as a prime example, often go through centuries of eruptions which are usually the lighter shell components and can also be heavier core components.

For all we know, Eta Carina may have alread exploded and its light and any surviving particles are on the way right now.

[Digit]

I just hope the experts don't now tell us they got it all wrong Monk as I have used the shock wave to open a story I've written.

[Forum Monk]

Talk about shock waves - these relatively minor eruptions are brewing up a massive explosion - or so astronomers believe.