advice needed

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:42 am

Swivel guns were mentioned prominently in accounts of the Battle of Lepanto in 1571. They must have been in use for a considerable period of time prior to that, though. Lepanto was the biggest naval battle in the Med since Actium.

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:52 am

Minimalist wrote:Swivel guns were mentioned prominently in accounts of the Battle of Lepanto in 1571. They must have been in use for a considerable period of time prior to that, though. Lepanto was the biggest naval battle in the Med since Actium.

HUmm so that type of gun was mainly used on board a ship and would not have much use on dry land? So it could date from about 1571 to much later?

I'm sorry for being such an idiot about this subject, I've not ever had occasion or need to study this before.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:00 pm

Their primary value on a ship was that you could prepare mountings on both port and starboard but you only needed half the number of guns. A boarding party usually came from one side or the other and it was an easy matter to move the guns to the threatened spot.

A regular gun, would take a lot longer to shift from side to side.

In theory, swivel guns would have been useful in defending a fort for the same reason, concentrating firepower at the point of attack. Obviously, in a land battle it is far easier for the attackers to spread out.

I believe that Lewis and Clark took one along to awe the Indians.

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:13 pm

Minimalist wrote:Their primary value on a ship was that you could prepare mountings on both port and starboard but you only needed half the number of guns. A boarding party usually came from one side or the other and it was an easy matter to move the guns to the threatened spot.

A regular gun, would take a lot longer to shift from side to side.

In theory, swivel guns would have been useful in defending a fort for the same reason, concentrating firepower at the point of attack. Obviously, in a land battle it is far easier for the attackers to spread out.

I believe that Lewis and Clark took one along to awe the Indians.

repeat dammit board.

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:14 pm

Minimalist wrote:Their primary value on a ship was that you could prepare mountings on both port and starboard but you only needed half the number of guns. A boarding party usually came from one side or the other and it was an easy matter to move the guns to the threatened spot.

A regular gun, would take a lot longer to shift from side to side.

In theory, swivel guns would have been useful in defending a fort for the same reason, concentrating firepower at the point of attack. Obviously, in a land battle it is far easier for the attackers to spread out.

I believe that Lewis and Clark took one along to awe the Indians.

AHA Lewis and Clark eh?

Thanks, it makes sense then to use moveable guns on a ship since they could switch sides… saved money and weight!

Thanks!

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:34 pm

Minimalist wrote:I tend to agree with R/S about the quality of the photos; not only are they dark and blurry but there is nothing to give them a sense of scale.

I did, however, in the one titled corks.jpg note what could easily be the aiming handle of a swivel gun.

In the example above the gun is bronze but iron would have been far more common and these guns, which were designed to pick off individual sailors rather than poke holes in the hull, note the back of the larger cannon, below.

I'll see if I can get anything out of the others.

I was thinking it was more like this part

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:46 pm

If the swords are made of bronze or iron and the water is alkaline to neutral they wont have corroded Clubs. It's a misnomer that iron corrodes, (rusts), it doesn't. Steel does, pure iron, ie wrought iron does not.
Acid conditions can cause iron to rot away without the normal rust coloration.
Any idea pf the PH of the water?

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:46 pm

Anything's possible.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:47 pm

Any idea of the PH of the water Clubs?

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:56 pm

Digit wrote:Any idea of the PH of the water Clubs?

I know that an area not so far off has a much higher iron content in the rocks and thus the natural ground water. This was made public in some study that tried to prove the reason some people in the area were deemed crazy, but that idea never panned out. although the water study was valid it had no connection to the people..the rumor they were all psycho was just some old wives tale.

The water in this site is from a natural underground source but as far as I know, it's not been PH tested.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:14 pm

Sorry about the double post, my computer's having an off day.
Water with a high iron content can under certain conditions coat things with a deposit of iron as opposed to corroding them.
Steel, under the right/wrong conditions can start to rust in days, so either the water is very kind to these weapons or they are not steel, which could mean they are of some age of some age.
Any idea of the length, type of hilt, etc, or is it in a scabbard?

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:22 pm

Digit wrote:Sorry about the double post, my computer's having an off day.
Water with a high iron content can under certain conditions coat things with a deposit of iron as opposed to corroding them.
Steel, under the right/wrong conditions can start to rust in days, so either the water is very kind to these weapons or they are not steel, which could mean they are of some age of some age.
Any idea of the length, type of hilt, etc, or is it in a scabbard?

It's not you, Dig. The board is having an off day. I got the dreaded "too many connections" error first thing this morning and duly reported it to the boss via e-mail.

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:13 am

Digit wrote:Sorry about the double post, my computer's having an off day.
Water with a high iron content can under certain conditions coat things with a deposit of iron as opposed to corroding them.
Steel, under the right/wrong conditions can start to rust in days, so either the water is very kind to these weapons or they are not steel, which could mean they are of some age of some age.
Any idea of the length, type of hilt, etc, or is it in a scabbard?

all I can make out is the u shaped bit that would protect your hand, the top long part and just a bit of the blade which passes underneath another long cannon looking thing.

what appears to be the handle is sort of like this only the arch part is much wider and the top extends further.

LOl of course it could be a giant tool too!

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:04 am

Something like any of these?

http://www.warsouvenirs.com/swords.htm

clubs_stink · Post by **clubs_stink** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:00 am

Minimalist wrote:Something like any of these?

http://www.warsouvenirs.com/swords.htm

there is something close to this

can't see any wood attached though