Could Abraham be from the Vedas?

[Ishtar]

This is indeed, a very interesting thread.

Here's another interesting nugget.

We know that there is no evidence for Herod's "slaughter of the innocents" after the birth of Jesus. This would indicate that at least this part of the Jesus story could be fictional (if not the whole lot, but I'll leave that for another day).

Anyway, the point I want to make here is there is a Vedic parallel story about their god, Krishna (Christ/Krishna?). After the birth of Krishna, the King Kamsa has all the newborn children slaughtered for the same reason as Herod, because he's been told that the one had been born who would topple him.

Now if we add this bit .....

In "The Bible Unearthed" Finkelstein tells us that the returning exiles from Babylon settled in the Persian province of Yehud from whence the term "Jews" was derived.

Stephen Knapp says: "One of the primary connections between Vedic culture and Judaism is that the name Judaism is linguistically related to Yeduism, or Yaduism, which points to the Yadus, also known as the Yadavas, who were a clan that belonged to Krishna's tribe. The letter 'Y' changes to 'J' in popular pronounciation. Through the years, the terms Yadavas changed to Jadavas and then to Judaists and shortened to Jews. Even today in India we find variations of that name among its people in the form of surnames such as Yadav, Jadhav and Jadeja."

...we may have a theory!

If the Yedus or Yadus were members of Krishna's tribe, they would have known the story of King Kamsa's slaughter, and their worship would have been focussed on the god Brahman and his wife, Saraswati.

As a footnote: The Yadus/Yadavas had to leave Dwarka in Gujerat, India after a great flood which happened after the death of Krishna. This is where the Gulf of Cambay excavations are currently being carried out. It is thought that the Yadavas went West.

[Minimalist]

but I do remember that there are numerous cases where the writer refers to places by their current (at the time) names rather then the names they had at the time of the story being told.

The Old Testament is replete with examples of cities being conquered at a time when they did not exist.

Professor Dever once quipped that the real miracle of Joshua was that he "conquered a city which wasn't there."

[Minimalist]

We know that there is no evidence for Herod's "slaughter of the innocents" after the birth of Jesus. This would indicate that at least this part of the Jesus story could be fictional (if not the whole lot, but I'll leave that for another day).

This tale appears only in the gospel of Matthew. Far more than any other, 'Matthew' is concerned with Jewish folklore and prophecy. The "slaughter of the innocents" is meant to remind Jewish readers of the similar tale in Exodus in which an unnamed pharaoh tried to knock off Moses in the same way.

Of course, archaeologists have no evidence that any of that ever happened either, but it's a great tale.

[Ishtar]

Someone has PM-ed me about Christ being derived from the Greek Christos. This is true but it's Khristos with a K. Also, the Greek language is an IE language - i.e. it has Sanskrit at its root.

[Minimalist]

Actually, I think it would be Christos with an X.

"Chi" being the Greek letter for "Ch."

Christ is the English term for the Greek word Χριστός (Christós), which literally means "The Anointed One."

[Ishtar]

Actually, I think it would be Christos with an X.

"Chi" being the Greek letter for "Ch."

Christ is the English term for the Greek word Χριστός (Christós), which literally means "The Anointed One."

This is from an essay by M. Blavatasky:

"Having said so much, a few more facts may be added to the etymology of the two terms. [Christos] being the verbal adjective in Greek of [chrio] "to be rubbed on," as ointment or salve, and the word being finally brought to mean "the Anointed One," in Christian theology; and Kri, in Sanskrit, the first syllable in the name of Krishna, meaning "to pour out, or rub over, to cover with," among many other things, this may lead one as easily to make of Krishna, "the anointed one." Christian philologists try to limit the meaning of Krishna's name to its derivation from Krish, "black"; but if the analogy and comparison of the Sanskrit with the Greek roots contained in the names of Chrestos, Christos, and Chrishna, are analyzed more carefully, it will be found that they are all of the same origin."

[Minimalist]

But in Hebrew the word is Mosiach (Messiah derived from it). The meaning however remains consistent: The King was anointed with oil at his coronation which is one of the arguments which Judaism tosses out at Christianity. Jesus was never anointed king of anything.

[Ishtar]

Jesus was never anointed king of anything.

If he ever existed!

It's tricky to try to prove anything from the Jesus story when it's patently a re-run of the old pagan Godhead sacrificing himself and then being resurrected initiation story.

[Minimalist]

Oh, Arch wouldn't like you!

[Digit]

If he ever existed!

Or Krishna etc etc etc!

[Forum Monk]

Christian philologists try to limit the meaning of Krishna's name to its derivation from Krish, "black"; but if the analogy and comparison of the Sanskrit with the Greek roots contained in the names of Chrestos, Christos, and Chrishna, are analyzed more carefully, it will be found that they are all of the same origin."

I don't know about Christian philologists but Krish meaning black is a reminder to me that Cush or Kush also means black or dark. Cush was the father of Nimrod, the first supposed king/dictator of mesopotamia after the deluge.

If he ever existed!

Jesus may not have been popular or well known in his day, being a relatively unknown carpenter's son from a tiny, rebellious nation. Even the gospels give the impression that by the time of his death, he had a handful of followers most of whom abandoned him by the time of his trial. In spite of this, millions of people the world over will tell you he is real whether history attests to his reality or not.

[Cognito]

In spite of this, millions of people the world over will tell you he is real whether history attests to his reality or not.

Nice parlor trick.

[Minimalist]

In spite of this, millions of people the world over will tell you he is real whether history attests to his reality or not.

Nice parlor trick.

Over at Internet Infidels the debate between the Historical Jesus and Mythical Jesus crowds goes on and on.

One guy likened the HJ position to the Addam's Family episode where they wanted to give cousin It a haircut. As they kept cutting they realized that all there was was hair!

[Digit]

The only 3 religous leaders known to have existed are Mahommed, Buddha, and Haile Selassie.
Where would we be without them?

[Minimalist]

Joseph Smith?