Geneticists Shake UP the Mix Again

[dannan14]

Min: lol, that almost sounds like Douglas Adams could have written it.

I am not a linguist or expert on how languages evolve but many people have tried to link the names of kings and peoples to the Noachic tradition by playing word games with names. I have no idea how valid any of is, but names with variations of Noah, Noa, Noach, Nuk, or Cush, Cuch, Kush, Kish or Ham, Hem, Am, Em:
Take these roots and tack on innumerable prefixs and suffixes and voila - roll your own link to the flood tradition. But, having looked at some of them...the evidence seems compelling in some cases.

i'm definitely not a linguist either. i'm an accountant for a reason However, it has to be that some are related. i've read about some very interesting research by linguists 'searching' for Proto-Indo-European or Proto-Nostratic and other such 'mother tongues' It's shocking how many languages today have very similar sounding words for the same concepts.

[Ishtar]

Hi Dannan

Don't know if you've seen this but if not, you might find it helpful.

Click on this link to show all Western European languages that come from an Indo European base.

http://www.danshort.com/ie/iecentum.htm

Then click on Satem in the left hand nav (or here: http://www.danshort.com/ie/iesatem.htm to see all Indo European languages that are related to Eastern Europe and South Asia.

As you say, there a 'shocking number'.

[Ishtar]

So I should think that there was definitely a flood.

Yes ... actually, floods. The first whopper followed the LGM meltdown at about 14,400bc. The second was post Younger Dryas, 9600bc.

But I'm wondering if the American ones were carried there by the Mongolian types/ Siberians?

Yes, definitely.

Thanks, Cogs.

I know you have a lot of expertise in this area, so I have a few gullible blonde questions:

1. Could you explain how the second (9600BC) flood fits geographically into the Neolithic habitations at Catal Hoyuk, Gobekli Tepe and other similar Near East sites? I think some of Gobekli Tepe dates to around 9,000 BC. So would they have been paddling? And how long would it take to dry it all out, bearing in mind that they didn't have hairdriers?
2. You seem pretty certain that the American flood stories were imported from Mongolia/Siberia. Yet FM mentioned that there had been some American floods too. So I was wondering how and why you are so certain.

[dannan14]

Hi Dannan

Don't know if you've seen this but if not, you might find it helpful.

Click on this link to show all Western European languages that come from an Indo European base.

http://www.danshort.com/ie/iecentum.htm

Then click on Satem in the left hand nav (or here: http://www.danshort.com/ie/iesatem.htm) to see all Indo European languages that are related to Eastern Europe and South Asia.

As you say, there a 'shocking number'.

The links didn't work for me. i'll try IE when i get home. i've seen several language trees, but i'm always interested in others since it is a very subjective science. Hopefully i can access your link later.

[Beagle]

I've got IE but neither link works for me.

[Minimalist]

Here's a chart for you guys who can't get to it.

[Ishtar]

Min, can you do the Satem languages too, please .. there's only half the story there?

[Minimalist]

I'll give it a try later. Right now I'm also getting a site error message on both links.

[Minimalist]

Alright, I was able to get in....after I edited your original link to the second one which had an extra ) which fouled it up. I've corrected your original post.

I grabbed the picture and hosted it on photobucket because no sooner had I done that than the site reported "not available" again. I suspect they are having bandwidth problems. Anyway, here's the second image.

[dannan14]

Yup, i have one very similar if not the same inside the cover of a dictionary. That dictionary, which i've had since high school, combined with J.R.R. Tolkien inspired my interest in languages.

The specific research i mentioned earlier was outlined in 'Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age' i know i've referred to that book here before, but it is one of my favorites. In the 'The Mother Tongue' chapter there is a short list of 'Proto-Indo-European' words with the equivalents from a dozen or so modern languages from around the world.

When i get home i'll pick one or two and post them.

[Ishtar]

Thank you, Min!

I think, once we understand just how many languages have an IE base, and how they all fit together, that the connection between the Siberians, the Indians and Orcadians begins to look not so unlikely.

[Minimalist]

I guess we'll have to ask the Out of Africa crowd what they spoke on the way from Africa to Northern India.

Maybe they kept a vow of silence.....like Monks?

[Ishtar]

Yes, possibly! Trappist monks!

But I think just after the last ice age, which is what the Vedic stories are referring to, is about 20,000 years at least after HSS is supposed to have come out of Africa.

There's another gene study, I forget where I read it now, that follows HSS coming out of Africa somewhere around Ethiopia and crossing over into southern India. Some them stayed (thought to be today's Dravidians, Australoids etc, whose physiogony and language has some similarities with that of the Sumerians) and the rest carried on to Indonesia and all points east.

I guess languages can develop a lot in 20,000 years. ... but maybe not out of all recognition.

Sorry... rambling ... it's been a long day....

Here's a dumb blonde question - if we all came out of Africa, why is our skin not black? Skin pigmentation is due to genetics, so we wouldn't have gradually evolved fairer skins due to lack of sun rays on it ...well, not in such a short time anyway, imo.

[Minimalist]

That is not a dumb question by any means and is one of the main arguments that I can see for rejecting OOA. Something caused the different pigmentation but I doubt very much that it was the weather.

Black slaves who fled to Canada via the Underground Railroad remain black. Whites who moved to South Africa remain white. The only time we get any change is when there is a genetic mixture.

For that matter the Ancient Egyptians were white and the Ancient Nubians were black. I am not convinced that it was all that much warmer on the Nubian side of the border to account for the difference.

[Digit]

Well first of all Ish we have to ask how do we know that the pre OOA people were black?
A change of colour is well within reason but one of the problems with the OOA scenario is that it is very difficult to explain how the colour cange spread through the population in the time allowed for by the later OOA scenario.