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What you're missing in my opinion, min, is the materials those hill peoples of yours used for their writings.

The only "writings" involved is the OT itself which we have no indication existed in written form prior to the 3d century BC when the Greeks wrote in down in Alexandria, E.P.

Minimalist wrote:

What you're missing in my opinion, min, is the materials those hill peoples of yours used for their writings.

The only "writings" involved is the OT itself which we have no indication existed in written form prior to the 3d century BC when the Greeks wrote in down in Alexandria, E.P.

min, the parallels between writings from Ugarit and parts of the OT have been researched for years. This opens the question of other writings used as OT sources, and whose they were, and where, and when. Those questions are there, regardless of whose analysis you endorse.

In any case, I always go to contemporaneous written documents and excavation results. it seems to be the best method. While my search for the end of LM1B and the Joshua impact account did start me on my research quest, I turned to this technique later to avoid the religious/nationalistic morass.

It is a far more powerful apparat, and yields reliable results.

“What you're missing in my opinion, min, is the materials those hill peoples of yours used for their writings.”

I would guess that a culture based on goat and sheep shepherding would have a fair amount of skins to write on.

In "The Quest for the Historical Israel", Amihai Mazar makes a list of potential sources which might have been utilized by the authors of the OT. He then confesses (or at least acknowledges) that there is no evidence of any of these sources.

KB, the question of when did literacy become widespread in Judah is one of the major considerations in Finkelstein's work. His conclusion is the 7th century BC...however even then there is nothing to tell us that Judah was particularly "Jewish."

Min, you can go with the low Hittite chronology or the middle. Among Hittites scholars most now go with the middle, as I did so many years ago.

Items in the news bearing on this:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 010710.php
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/owenjarus ... gle+Reader
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/sean-will ... tal-avaris

Egyptian, Hittite, Babylonian, and "Minoan" chronologies all have to fit together, along with the now absolute dating of the eruption of Thera at 1628 BCE, and the appearance of Comet Encke at that time and the later impact of its fragments (and these did follow a temporal pattern).

(And by the way Thunderbird Mound at Poverty Point was built at this same time.)

When I first pointed out that the "Joshua" impact could explain LM1B, the destruction of the Minoan armed forces, and the ai-a-ja (Achaean) conquest of Crete and SW Anatolia, Eric Cline himself was one of the first to ridicule my hypothesis.

It was a pleasure to later watch Manfred Bietak cut Cline a new one on Cline's chronological work.

One of your drivers is the ancient Israelites, the other early boats. My driver was the "Minoans", and later to simply establish the impact rate for the public policy purpose of wisely spending 10's of billions of dollars on space. The WISE satellite just launched cost $500 million. NEO-VIS will cost about the same, and China will spend large amounts of money on CAPS, along with other nations.

Bottom line, it was not simply the eruption of Thera that ended the "Minoans", but rather eruption followed by impact, a 1-2 punch.

Bottom line, it was not simply the eruption of Thera that ended the "Minoans", but rather eruption followed by impact, a 1-2 punch.

Evidence from Crete itself suggests that the survivors were taken out by Greek invaders, possibly the Sea People but also possibly somewhat earlier as Greece seems to have suffered less than Crete from Thera.

In any case, it has precious little to do with "Israel."

(And the reaction to Gershon Galil's "interpretation" has already begun but is not formalized yet. Give it some time.)

If there was an impact in 1628 BCE, then shouldn't there be a geological 'spoor' of an impact crater? As there is of the Chixclub and Arizona craters, and others?

Rokcet Scientist wrote:If there was an impact in 1628 BCE, then shouldn't there be a geological 'spoor' of an impact crater? As there is of the Chixclub and Arizona craters, and others?

The impact occurs roughly 1585-1586, during the expedition of the Hittite king Hantilishi
(known to us mythologically as Tantalus< T'e (God) Hantilishi.

There may have been "spoor". It appears that it was an iron impact, perhaps from a fragment of the core of Encke, as the price of iron drops suddenly. Or this may have been incidental, and what hit was an outer cometary fragment.

Please read the materials at these links
1998-2002 On the Joshua impact event
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032098.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032598.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc033098.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012102.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc021202.html

It will make discussing this easier for both of us.

Minimalist wrote:

What you're missing in my opinion, min, is the materials those hill peoples of yours used for their writings.

The only "writings" involved is the OT itself which we have no indication existed in written form prior to the 3d century BC when the Greeks wrote in down in Alexandria, E.P.

Maybe, then again, maybe not: This article has tons and tons of disclaimers, but still interesting. (gotta love the title of the article)

Oldest Possibly Hebrew Inscription Possibly Found

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445132,00.html


...and the Wiki article, complete with proposed translation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khirbet_Qeiyafa

E.P. Grondine wrote:

Rokcet Scientist wrote:If there was an impact in 1628 BCE

The impact occurs roughly 1585-1586, during the expedition of the Hittite king Hantilishi
(known to us mythologically as Tantalus< T'e (God) Hantilishi.

So what you call a double whammy was actually the eruption in 1628 BCE, and the impact in 1585-1586 BCE? About a half century apart!
However, although they were a half century apart, I can well imagine an eruption followed by an impact (and their respective consequences) inside a half century destroying and finishing off the minoan civilisation.

Rokcet Scientist wrote: So what you call a double whammy was actually the eruption in 1628 BCE, and the impact in 1585-1586 BCE? About a half century apart!

Exactly the span of LM1B

Rokcet Scientist wrote: However, although they were a half century apart, I can well imagine an eruption followed by an impact (and their respective consequences) inside a half century destroying and finishing off the minoan civilisation.

The impact crippled the "Minoan" military forces, who were "appenage" to the Hittite forces, thus leaving the Lycian trade federation lands open for conquest by the Achaeans.