Evolutionary news

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:35 pm

Pointless...

Hey, Bob, I think that if you ignore "a" he will lose interest. He is just baiting you, while some of the rest of us would like to dialog with you a little. Want to try it?
Stan

ARCHAEOLOGIST VS MINIMALIST ONLY ON ARCHAEOLOGICA!!!!

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:02 pm

I suggested the ignoring thing a long time ago. It only works if we all do it, though. Bob won't. He likes arguing with "a".

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:35 pm

Are you locked up in an asylum? I'm starting to question your sanity.

i think it should be me who is asking that question as your fallback argument is as weak as a wet napkin. the last i looked philo wasn't the man who everyone looked to as the final word on anything soif he decides not to mention someone, then it means very little.

who knows why he omitted mentioning Christ, maybe he didn't believe what he heard and decided to ignore it...you don't know and to use this as 'proof' that Christ didn't exist, is beneath you and is laughable.

I suggested the ignoring thing a long time ago. It only works if we all do it, though. Bob won't. He likes arguing with "a

what is the point of having a discussion, if everyone agrees? that would be boring and useless even though i may not accept your theories or positions, i do read your links (well, most of them) i read your points of views and i learn things. it may not be what you want me to learn but that is beside the point.

i willsay this, if i went to a christian chat room, i would either be banned or no one would discuss anything in depth as they donot take the time to investigate subjects or i say something that is different than what they believe.

unfortunately, most christians do not know anything and are only looking for reassurance, not growth. i went toone christian chat room once and political topics were allowed. soin trying to make a point i compared bush with hitler (excellent story on this at Freepress.org or com{not sure which}) and it didn't even take them a day to ban me.

i have to give michelle credit for her practices as even though it gets a bit rough, she allows many different opinions to be expressed without fear of banishment.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:11 pm

who knows why he omitted mentioning Christ, maybe he didn't believe what he heard and decided to ignore it

You are getting desperate. So, if you were writing a diatribe against Hitler you would mention the Beer Hall Putsch and the bombing of London and Rotterdam but you'd leave out the invasion of Russia because you didn't believe what you heard?

Either your boy Jesus was a big deal or he wasn't. It is only your damned 'gospels' which claim that 'multitudes' flocked to him and lined the road to greet him. Why is it that no one else seems inclined to mention him? I am becoming more and more convinced that the reason is that the myth of a historical jesus was a late 1st century AD creation, designed as a midrash which got out of hand when gentiles who did not get the concept started taking it literally.

Stan, I'm having fun tormenting arch. He's the type who is not used to anyone directing a little shit at his precious fantasy. By all means, if you want to get in on something feel free and I'll reply to you directly.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:31 pm

Sign me up to ignore!! C'mon Bob, this is ruining the whole forum. However, I must add - there is nobody to blame but the moderater. When left to their own, people will eventually boil the conversation down to religion and politics. That becomes the end of rational dialogue. Having said that, I may be locked out tomorrow, but it needs to be said.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:13 pm

I've been on boards where outright flame wars have started with guys (literally) making plans to meet up and have a fist fight.

We are not that bad.

That other board which has none of that stuff is pretty damned boring.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:40 pm

All right then. You can keep beating up on him, and he can continue to cyber-witness to us heathens (building up points in heaven). I'm ignoring it and hope that everyone will just post around it. Remember Bob - you're the smart one.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:14 am

You can keep beating up on him, and he can continue to cyber-witness to us heathens

well he isn't beating up on me, he can't even come close to proving his point as he usually posys an opinion from those who tell him what he wants to hear. he doesn't even realize that they are manipulating the dates so they are right and the Bible looks wrong.

i am here for discussion, if you feel witnessed to that is only because my position is on the side of the Bible and i will always side with the Bible for i know that it is true.

now in case you are wondering about more support for the Bible and the book of genesis, charles pellegrino in his book 'Unearthing Atlantis' points out how Egypr's Ipuwer papyrus records the plagues in the order as given in Genesis. pgs. 80-83

then later in the same book he records his conversation with the oceanographer Daniel Stanley on pgs. 238 and 239:
"...has some exciting new insights on paleontology and the pottery clock discrepancy. He and Harrison Cheng, both of the smithsonian institution, discovered a nile delta ash layer and have identified its chemical fingerprint as an exact match with ash from thera...and the exodus connection, i asked. that's of course the intersting thing. i mean, what else can you say? hail mixed with flames? a darkness so thick that people could not see one another? a pillar of fire lighting up the night sky? the Bible makes reference to all of these things, and all of these things could be descriptions of the ash cloud. this nile ash layer is the first hard proof of anything like that in egypt.. we now have a record that that statements given in Exodus which sound very strange most likely did happen."

again, the evidence is there and what you do with it is up to you. you can try to attack the researchers or pellegrino but that is always the modus operendi around here instead of honestly dealing with the issues at hand.

of course this discovery upsets the 'accepted' dating done by those who do not believe the Bible--dever and finkelstein et al. also i do not expect non-religious people to be jumping up and down when they find things that prove the bible. that is not their purpose nor is it their goal. their goal is to use only humanthinking wjich is fallible thus despite minimalist's support, they make grave mistakes.

Leona Conner · Post by **Leona Conner** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:13 am

Bob, I have to go with Frank and Beagle. You can't go through a door that is closed and will not allow itsefl to be opened.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:01 am

Charles Pellegrino, from his own website.

Pellegrino shifted back toward science history in his 1994 Return to Sodom and Gomorrah: Bible stories from Archaeologists. Here Pellegrino returned to the volcano that destroyed Thera in 1628 BC, which, he also contended created the days of darkness, ashes and pestilence described in Egypt's Ipewer Papyrus and in the Book of Exodus.l He also considered the existence of Sodom, which he believes, said a Publishers Weekly reviewer, “represents a telescoping of oral traditions from diverse places.” Using the fieldwork of archaeologists Elisabeth Stone and Paul Zimanksy, he speculated that Madhkan-shapir, an ancient city now located under the Iraqi desert, may have been one such historical site. He also addressed questions such as where the Ark of the Covenant resides, and the irony that Eve’s punishment for eating from the Tree of Knowledge was to have her child labors become painful. Reviewers were appreciative while at the same time they noted the highly speculative nature of the book. A Publishers Weekly reviewer concluded that “(h)is unsubstantiated theories may irk scientist and scholars but will intrigue general readers.” And Booklist’s Ilene Cooper stated that the book “offers plenty to think about and argue with.” Pellegrino does draw clear divisions between scientific evidence and the speculations that follow – pointing out opposing views to his own best guesses, and indicating the direction of future research that will either confirm or deny.

He has a PH D but apparently not in archaeology. At least, it says that Pellegrino makes it clear what is "evidence" and what is "speculation"; distinctions which are usually lost on the arch's of the world!

The Ipuwer Papyrus:

Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make.

One can only assume that arch is willing to make ANY leap of faith!

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:41 am

Please allow me to take care of some unfinished business. Tempers have been flaring here a little bit and I took an unwarrented swipe at our moderater. I hope she will not be too offended. This a good forum and I have been a long time reader before I joined.

Post by **MichelleH** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:53 am

Beagle,

No offense taken, all opinions, as along as they follow the rules
(including those on the Moderator's performance) are welcome.

No need to apologize

MichelleH

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:14 pm

He has a PH D but apparently not in archaeology. At least, it says that Pellegrino makes it clear what is "evidence" and what is "speculation"; distinctions which are usually lost on the arch's of the world

One can only assume that arch is willing to make ANY leap of faith

actually it proves a point. that no matter who ipost up here minimalist woill avoid the issue and always attack the messenger thus:

I have to go with Frank and Beagle. You can't go through a door that is closed and will not allow itsefl to be opened.

these words really apply to minimalist, leona, frank, stan, freethinker and all those who refuse to listen to opposing opinions.

maybe that pellegrino's phd is not in archaeology but that doesn't exclude him from being able to have an opinion on the evidence he comes across. he is doing nothing different than any scientist or archaeologist is doing that minimalist quotes. so 'what is good for the goose is good for the gander'

i would probably have a heart attack if any of the aformentioned actually deals honestly with the issue instead of trying to side track the discussion with pointless attacks upon the person and the people he uses to make his point.

i have been accused of not offering any evidence we now have proof that that is a baseless accusation as each time i post someone or something it is dismissed or ignored. so once again you have evidence presented by a non-religious scientist and with non-biblical support. what you do with it is upto you but don't accuse me of being desparate or failing toprovide evidence.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:11 pm

Hey, arch, cut the crap.

“(h)is unsubstantiated theories may irk scientist and scholars but will intrigue general readers.”

That's what he put up on his own web site. Do you understand what unsubstantiated theories means? It means bullshit.

The fact that there are legions of people, like you, who are so desperate to find some vindication for their superstititions does not make anyone who writes a book to that effect some sort of super scientist. As a matter of fact it makes it him pretty much a con man.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:22 pm

maybe that pellegrino's phd is not in archaeology but that doesn't exclude him from being able to have an opinion

And if his PH D is in dentistry do you suppose they'd let him do heart surgery because "what the hell" he's a doctor?

You are right, arch, he is entitled to his opinion....uninformed though it may be!