Uh-Oh

[Tiompan]

Chris , Found compound B and Tabletop peak and got the same figures . i must say I would discount it too , based on the current thinking in archaeoastronomy .The main reasons being , the builders were perfectly capable of being accuarate and they could have easily built the monument to be bang on the solstice , if required . The more salient point for me is that there is no "indication " i.e. even if it was spot on there is nothing to suggest the builders were using the peak as a marker without another marker between the two sites .
Prominent peaks in sight of monuments are always being suggested as possible alignments ,when nothing is apparent in relation to the usual archaeoastronomy paradigm , solstices ,equinoxes ,standstills (in Europe others are also considered like cross quarter days, in fact if you give the builders a bit of leeway for inaccuracy quite a lot of the potential horizon gets taken up ) it gets discounted when possibly there was something of significance to the builders but not of this paradigm i.e. the date the sun set behind the hill was day one of the build date , or local personalities death etc .. Monumnets and prominent features will always suggest alignments to us but we can only be ure of the intention of builder if there is a further clue in the use of the additional indicator .
I have no plans in the near future and little knowledge of the SW but the more you se of it ,from afar , the more appealing it becomes .

George

[Minimalist]

It's going to be 111 here in Phoenix today, George.

[Tiompan]

It's going to be 111 here in Phoenix today, George.

LOL , I think it's hot when it hits the 70's .

George

[Minimalist]

[hardaker]

Johnny - thanks; another great idea bites the dust. Nice to see current thoughts.

George -- the intermediary is Black Butte, which does not come up on my google-earth (mac);
you will need a topo. it is a natural alignment.
you hip to Mircea Eliade?

Minimalist -- that's 111-degrees in the shade!

[hardaker]

Min -- a dry heat, like an acetylene torch.

[Minimalist]

Murder here today.

My dog, who is always enthusiastic to go out for her walk, goes outside takes a leak and wants to go home. She's no dope.

[Tiompan]

Chris , I think I have found Black Butte ,32.946513 -111.658064 , height approx 518m ? It is bang on the line and obviously visible from compound B . It does provide more salience but being natural ,archaeoastronomers will still not be satisfied .

I only know the shamanism book of Eliade , which was all there was on the subject for quite a while .
My main interest is in rock art and it looks like studies in that area are extricating themselves from a big hole (or should I say crater )
dug by the shamaniacs . There's no doubt that particularly in the New World some rock art was possibly produced by or connected to a form of shamanism
but this has been extrapolated to include non representational markings from all over the world from the Paleolithic to the historical period .
Some interesting writers on the subject have appeared in the past couple of decades and the study has certainly adavnced immeasurably but I don't really keep up with it that much . He didn't write about astronomy afaik .
George

[hardaker]

George - Over here, a natural solsticial alignment is duly noted when an architectural construction or feature is set down on its line. It is God-made for a culture like the Hohokam. I don't know what arch-ast. would refuse-ignore-complain about a natural alignment that almost specifies the solstice out of hand as culturally insignificant and more likely indicative of a researcher's fabricated fantasy. Such an immediately biased assumption would seem to be ethnocentrically reckless, especially given the attention to concepts like heralding points along the horizon -- Williamson's journal has dealt with this over the decades. Check out the work on natural solstice sites demarcated by rock-art spirals up in the Painted Desert, back in the late 80s-90s, something like 19 Sites is in the title. And there has been a lot more work out in the 4 Corners area. Eliade's The Myth of the Eternal Return: Cosmos and History (Princeton Classic Editions) is a great introduction to the archaic mind -- how it works and how it determines meaning. He spoke of it as the best introduction to his entire works. It's a mind f###.

[Tiompan]

George - Over here, a natural solsticial alignment is duly noted when an architectural construction or feature is set down on its line. It is God-made for a culture like the Hohokam. I don't know what arch-ast. would refuse-ignore-complain about a natural alignment that almost specifies the solstice out of hand as culturally insignificant and more likely indicative of a researcher's fabricated fantasy. Such an immediately biased assumption would seem to be ethnocentrically reckless, especially given the attention to concepts like heralding points along the horizon -- Williamson's journal has dealt with this over the decades. Check out the work on natural solstice sites demarcated by rock-art spirals up in the Painted Desert, back in the late 80s-90s, something like 19 Sites is in the title. And there has been a lot more work out in the 4 Corners area. Eliade's The Myth of the Eternal Return: Cosmos and History (Princeton Classic Editions) is a great introduction to the archaic mind -- how it works and how it determines meaning. He spoke of it as the best introduction to his entire works. It's a mind f###.

Chris, I can think of quite a few US archaeoastronomers who would not accept two natural features and one man made construction as evidence of an intentional alignment . e.g. the chap you mention ,Ray Williamson , questions the Pueblo Bonito solstice alignments . " However we feel that this hypothesis ...is far from settled .That the alignment is real there is no doubt .however if it is intentional , it is certainly not clear that the alignment ever served to set a calendar etc" If the construction involved two or more components or a line like a wall or the" doors " at Casa Rinconada then that could be seen as a sign of intentionality .At compound B all there is the compound itself with no nothing to suggest a line along the alignment axis and even if there were , it would not have the accuracy , as the natural features don't supply the appropriate azimuth from the compound , which we might expect , as those found at CR are very close .

Are the rock art examples on line ?
I would love to be introduced to an archaic mind .
Cognitive archaeology has made some inroads ,although it's very early days . Colin Renfrew's "The ancient mind " was an early but enjoyable collection . Merlin Donald "A mind so rare " and "The making of the modern mind " are very readable and a fine antidote if you dislike Fodor and co's modular approach .

George

[Rokcet Scientist]

It's going to be 111 here in Phoenix today, George.

Twas 95F here today (35C). With 60% humidity!
Pffffff

Same forecast for tomorrow...