Neanderthal News

[Forum Monk]

Not to diminish your point, no one knows what Set's hair color was since he is considered mythical in many respects. He was depicted as red-haired because he is associated with evil. Osiris is shown with green-skin and no one believe egyptians were green. If the egyptians considered red to be associated with evil, why would they intentionally want to appear that way?

Many of these red-head, blonde-head egyptian sites are trying to discredit the "black" egyptian and afrocentrist claims. I am dubious as I have yet to find a respectable site making claims of red-haired or blonde haired pharoahs.

[Beagle]

http://www.discoverychannelasia.com/ram ... ndex.shtml

In 1976, the remains of his mummy endured substantial testing by a team of more than 100 scientists in Paris. The findings revealed Rameses’ physical characteristics which are thought to be rare for ancient Egyptians: a five-foot, seven-inch stature; flaming red hair; and 90-plus years of longevity.

Though not a scientific paper, this is from the Discovery Channel, and has definate credence. So I'm satisfied that Ramses had red hair but as we know there is a lot of genetic variability, especially in Africa. In the Far East there seems to be the least amount of variation.

As to other Pharoahs having red hair, it's interesting but I just don't know anything about it. It IS a curiousity.

[Minimalist]

Of course Set, like all gods, was imaginary. However, since 'man' created the 'gods' he had to have something to imagine. If red hair were unknown in Egypt it is damn unlikely that they would have ascribed such a look to their god.

As the old saying goes, 'if triangles had a god it would have 3 sides.'

Many of these red-head, blonde-head egyptian sites are trying to discredit the "black" egyptian and afrocentrist claims.

Absolutely. I had to pick through them carefully to find one which was at least careful to mention its sources. (There was one which suggested that Nordic types must have conquered Egypt and become pharaoh!)
However, I had heard the stuff about Ramesses being red-haired before. I also won't blame the tool for the hand that wields it.

[john]

American Blacks were brought out of the tropics beginning 5 centuries ago. They remain Black.

Having lived in and travelled extensively across Africa, as well as having travelled the States extensively, I have to disagree: on average American negroids are definitely a couple tints lighter 'shades of black' than African negroids.

You ought to look at the historical American descriptions of several races (other than, but including whites) which begin with "high yaller", then descend according to darkness of skin color. My mother, now quite old, grew up as a girl when this form of naming was quite common. As far as I can tell, it had little to do with social status by race (which was already locked in), but much more to do with a rough and ready description of perceived hybridism.

john


p.s.

Were, then, the theoretical Homo s./Homo n. hybrids described as "high red"? Enquiring minds, etc..

j

[Digit]

Beagle there one RACE it called the human we havent used the term race in years you could say ethnology that more accepted try to keep up tp date old mate.

Yeah! Along with umpteen other words that the bleeding hearts brigade say is demeaning and must be replaced with an alternative that then takes on the same associations.
A totally pointless exercise!

[Rokcet Scientist]

What about Rapa Nui (Easter Island)? Those statues there all have red 'wigs'. Was Rapa Nui colonized (in the first millennium AD...) by HN?

Why not? Mammoths survived on Wrangel Island until 7,000/8,000 BC. Coelacanths are still alive!

[Beagle]

Two Middle Pleistocene Human Hyoid Bones from the Sima de los Huesos Site (Sierra de Atapuerca, Spain)
I. Martinez, Departamento de Geología, Universidad de Alcalá de Henares, SPAIN
J.-L. Arsuaga, Departamento de Paleontología, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, SPAIN
R., Quam, Department of Anthropology, American Museum of Natural History, USA
J.-M. Carretero, Departamento de Ciencias Históricas y Geografía, Universidad de Burgos, SPAIN
A. Gracia, Área de Evolución Humana, Centro de Investigación (UCM-ISCIII) sobre, SPAIN
The hyoid bone is among the least represented skeletal element in the human fossil record, and the recent discovery of an Australopithecus afarensis hyoid bone, reported as being chimpanzee-like (Alemseged et al. 2006), has generated renewed interest in the evolutionary significance of this bone in the human lineage. Prior to this, only one other hyoid specimen was known, from the Kebara 2 Neandertal (Arensburg et al., 1988). This paucity in the fossil record, with only two specimens separated by nearly three million years, has meant that it has not been possible to address questions of the biological, temporal, or geographic variation which may influence phylogenetic interpretations based on this bone. The present study describes and compares two hyoid bones from the Middle Pleistocene site of the Sima de los Huesos (SH) in the Sierra de Atapuerca (Spain). These specimens considerably extend the known fossil record for the genus Homo to deep in the Middle Pleistocene. The Atapuerca SH hyoids are clearly human-like in both their morphology and dimensions, and, based on modern human developmental criteria, both specimens can be attributed to adult individuals. Their comparison with the Kebara 2 Neandertal specimen makes it possible to begin to approach the question of temporal variation and sexual dimorphism in this bone within the Neandertal evolutionary lineage. The present results show that the degree of metric and anatomical variation in this lineage was of the same kind and magnitude as that seen in living humans. The modern hyoid morphology, then, was present in the fossil record by at least 530 kya (Bischoff et al. 2006) and appears to represent a shared derived feature seen in both the modern human and Neandertal evolutionary lineages, one which was inherited from their last common ancestor.
Acknowledgements: We wish to thank the Atapuerca Research and Excavation Team for their work in the field, especially to A. Esquivel, N. García, C. Lorenzo, and A. Bonmatí for their work at the Sima de los Huesos site. We would also like to thank B. Latimer and L. Jellema who kindly provided access to the Hamann-Todd collection housed at The Cleveland Museum of Natural History (USA) and to O. Martín who measured the Hamann-Todd hyoid bones. C. Cavada and A. Olaya also kindly provided hyoid bones derived from a cadeveric collection in the Dpto. de Morfología de la Facultad de Medicina de la Universidad Autónoma de Madrid. R. Quam and A. Gracia have enjoyed the support of a grant from the Fundación Duques de Soria/Fundación Atapuerca. The excavations at the Atapuerca sites are funded by the Junta de Castilla y León. This research was supported by the Ministerio de Ciencia y Tecnología of the Government of Spain, Project No. BXX2000-1258-C03-02.
References:
Alemseged, Z., Spoor, F., Kimbel, W.H., Bobe, R., Geraads, D., Reed, D., and Wynn, J.G. 2006. A juvenile early hominin skeleton from Dikika, Ethiopia. Nature 443: 296–301.
Arensburg, B., Tillier, A.M., Vandermeersch, B., Duday, H., Schepartz, L.A., and Rak, Y., 1989. A Middle Palaeolithic human hyoid bone. Nature 338: 758–760.
Bischoff, J., Williams, R., Rosenbauer, R., Aranburu, A., Arsuaga, J., García, N., and Cuenca, G., in press. High-resolution U-series dates from the Sima de los Huesos yields 600 + ∞ - 66 kyrs: Implications for the evolution of the Neanderthal lineage. Journal of Anthropological Archaeology.

The recent discovery of a hyoid bone (considered necessary for speech) in an Australopithicene, leads researchers to the conclusion that the common ancestor of HN and HS also had a hyoid bone.

[Forum Monk]

Very interesting find.

What's the date on that paper, Beag. Did you see one?

[Beagle]

Hi FM, it's an abstract from 2007. I'm only a quarter of the way through the '07 abstracts and a few of the papers. However, I'm not sure that it has been peer reviewed.

I'll get the url later and post it.

[Beagle]

FM, here is the site that I've been looking through. You may find something of interest.

http://www.paleoanthro.org/journal/default.htm

[Rokcet Scientist]

I'll say!
Thanks, Beags.

[War Arrow]

Of course Set, like all gods, was imaginary. However, since 'man' created the 'gods' he had to have something to imagine. If red hair were unknown in Egypt it is damn unlikely that they would have ascribed such a look to their god.

Er... I'm not actually trying to weigh in on this argument, so please feel free to blow this one out of the water, but it might be argued that India seems lacking in folks with more than the traditional quota of arms, yet some of their Gods seem to have more than their fair share. Or am I being too literal here?
Hmmm. I've never come across any ginger Mexican Gods so perhaps your point stands ie - it's easier to imagine variations on something you have seen (arms, but more of them, or animal heads but on human bodies) than something you haven't seen (red hair being your example). I think I've just replied to my own post.

As an aside, it's always impressed me the number of arms that folks in India managed to cram onto their Deities and it makes me wonder why no (or at least few) other cultures did that.

[Digit]

yet some of their Gods seem to have more than their fair share (of arms).

I once knew a girl like that!

[daybrown]

As an aside, it's always impressed me the number of arms that folks in India managed to cram onto their Deities and it makes me wonder why no (or at least few) other cultures did that.

It has to do with their cosmology and the use of powerful sacred potions. If you wave your hand in front of the TV, because of the scan rate, it looks like more fingers.

If you are on acid, Pscilocybin, Amanita Muscaria, etc, the neurological frame rate is affected, and as someone moves, you will see them somewhat like folks do at a rave with strobe lights.

The other factor has to do with the Vedic notion of time, which not linear like the Biblical. It is not that Kali has eight arms, its that you see each hand of the Goddess manifested at different times doing different things. But one thing Saint Ramprasad said She always does, is wield a sacred athame, a small blade women have always used as a seam ripper, to slice thru the veils of illusion of what passes for reality.

The Bible never ponders the question of whether what is seen is real. Vedic art does not show you what is real in real time, but hypertime.

[Minimalist]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wale ... 069001.stm

Scientists say more accurate tests date the earliest human burial found in the UK to just over 29,000 years ago.

When discovered in a cave on Gower in the 1820s the bones were thought to be around 18,000 years old, but were later redated to between 25,000 and 26,000.

And....of course.....

It owes its name to the red ochre covering the bones.