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HN vs HS

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:53 am
by Cognito
Yeah....in a little bit more time it may turn out that there was no significant difference at all.
Min, the interesting point is this: upon HS arrival in Europe somewhere between 40kya and 45kya there is no great difference in toolkit technology between the two groups. Eons later the two groups diverge. It seems to me that improvements were diffusing from somewhere other than Europe. I can hear the Eurocentrists coming after me now.

Image

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:14 pm
by Digit
I can hear the Eurocentrists coming after me now.
Too bloody true Cog! Didn't you know God was an English man? :twisted:

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:19 pm
by Beagle
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/di ... lity_N.htm
ATHENS — Analysis of a 40,000-year-old tooth found in southern Greece suggests Neanderthals were more mobile than once believed, paleontologists and the Greek Culture Ministry said Friday.
Analysis of the tooth — part of the first and only Neanderthal remains found in Greece — showed the ancient human to whom it belonged had spent at least part of its life away from the area where it died.

"Neanderthal mobility is highly controversial," said paleoanthropology Professor Katerina Harvati at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

Some experts believe Neanderthals roamed over very limited areas, but others say they must have been more mobile, particularly when hunting, Harvati explained.
It's amazing to me that this would be newsworthy. Neanderthal actually moved around. John Hawks wrote an opinion on this article saying, "They weren't trees, they were humans!". Neanderthal news is getting more and more ridiculous. :roll:

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:04 am
by Minimalist
Most Hunter/Gatherer groups move; it's pretty much part of the equation. They may move within a specified range....like moving cattle from high pastures to low pastures in winter, but sooner or later the wipe out the food supply in a given area and have to move on to more lucrative spots...giving the first area a chance to recover.

Why would this be news for HNS when it is commonplace for HSS?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:14 am
by Digit
Cos they were thick headed cave men Min. :?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:28 am
by Minimalist
I guess, Dig. They were literally so stupid that they sat on their asses in a depleted area and starved to death.

No wonder they went extinct!

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:05 pm
by Digit
That's for sure Min. :lol:

Stupidity

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:13 pm
by Cognito
They were literally so stupid that they sat on their asses in a depleted area and starved to death. No wonder they went extinct!
As long as scientists keep this attitude they won't be making any impressive discoveries soon. To go out on a limb to mention that a Neanderthal might have traveled 12.5 miles in its lifetime is, quite frankly, stupid and I share deep concern for a member of our own species coming up with the comment. Neanderthals walked in a similar manner to HS and could probably cover 12.5 miles on a daily hunt. :roll:

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:16 pm
by Digit
True Cog, looks as though there are more Neandertals doing the studying than being studied. :roll:

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:24 pm
by Minimalist
:lol:

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:35 pm
by Beagle
http://www.livescience.com/history/0802 ... -bone.html
Our gift of the gab is all due to a small horseshoe-shaped bone suspended in the muscles of our neck, like a piece of fruit trapped in Jell-O.

The hyoid bone, which is the only bone in the body not connected to any other, is the foundation of speech and is found only in humans and Neanderthals.
A good article about the dreaded hyoid bone. It puts to rest some of the doubts about Neanderthal speech. 8)

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:56 pm
by Digit
Sometimes Beag you have to work without direct evidence, and the argument about HSN speech was settled for me years ago. Just try and imagine a way of life that we know they had without speech.
I know Chimps hunt, but conducting a hunt of an animal, several times your size, and beter armed, on an open plain, without discussing tactics and directing events if all didn't go to plan.
I think the case proven.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:02 pm
by Beagle
conducting a hunt of an animal, several times your size, and beter armed, on an open plain, without discussing tactics
Some people would say that a wolf pack can do that Dig. But as you say, there is no question about Neanderthal speech.

The article in fact, states that H. Heidelbergensis had speech.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:10 pm
by Minimalist
Can a wolf pack...or a pride of lions, for that matter, adjust to changes or do they just break off the hunt and come back another day?

As Von Clauswitz said, "no plan of battle survives contact with the enemy." Humans can adapt, though.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:32 pm
by Digit
I knew sombody would bring that up Min. The Wolf of course has one big advantage over man, he's lot faster so Wolves can run their prey down, and frankly, I don't see Wolves taking on animals as large as Mastodons.
Even Chimps only pick on the little fellahs!.