Archaeologica.org

stellarchaser wrote:

Katherine Reece wrote:

stellarchaser wrote: Tell me RK, can you tell me please, when Greek tribes inhabited Balkan peninsula, or better, when we see first signs of Greek or Hellenic culture in the Balkans?

http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/02/mainland/e ... index.html

Thank you Katherine. But if Greek tribes have been on Balkan peninsula at least from 3000 BC, than I asume that their arrival here around 1500 BC is wrong hypothesis. We have learned that in school, that Greek tribes came to balkans around 1500 BC from Asia Minor.

All I can do here is find internet references for you ... as I said Greece has never interested me much and I only have one old book on it in my library and it doesn't cover much.

But if you ask me about the preceramic cultures on the coast of Peru I can bore you to tears for hours! LOL!!

I thought that Michael Ventris' decipherment of the Linear B tablets found by Evans on Crete proved that it was a primitive form of Greek?

First of all I am not anarchaeologist by trainig or profession.Science interests me very much ,exact sciences,human sciences,history ,etc.Lik everybody else I am trying to uncover whatever is revealed concerning the hypothetical existence of pyramids in Bosnia .I didn't bring in the Lepinski Vir civilisation into this .It was brought in to demonstrate the advanced capabilities of the mentioned civilisation regarding mathematics and writing .Stellarchaser linked me to a site which states the signs are symbols claimed by some to be writing,. Regarding the layout of the dwellings ,I see no advanced mathemarics involved at all .To claim that the people responsible for building those dwellings made use of advanced mathematics because they used a triangular shape instead of a square is beyond my understanding .By analogy I could very well lay out the pattern of poles of an indianteepee,draw some nice linescrossing them all,bring in Pythagoras So please feel free to instruct me here go allthe way to make your point but do not refer to a website where somebody else makes the same claim without concluding evidence .That is not proof . It is not even science .I "ve been wading through enough websites making the weirdest assumptions on verying subjects like the great pyramid,Stonehenge,Yhe gothic cathedrals linking them to occult knowledge using exactly the same techniques involving demonstrations with complicated geometrical patterns before .NO need to see them applied to simple dwelling at all .Why am I coming back to this?I think there are different ways of approaching the topic debated here .One would be to scrutinize the evolution of civilization in the Balkans and look on a timescale when exactly the conditions necessary for this gigantic enterprise would be most convenient .
We allready know that the Egyptian civilization was made possible by the existence of a rich agricultural production garanteed by the cyclesof the Nile .A similar situation of agricutural overproduction should have existed in Bosnia to allow enough ressources and workforce to be liberated .When would those conditions have existed ?
Again feel free to inform us all if you believe in those pyramids .

ReneDescartes wrote:I see no advanced mathemarics involved at all .To claim that the people responsible for building those dwellings made use of advanced mathematics because they used a triangular shape instead of a square is beyond my understanding .By analogy I could very well lay out the pattern of poles of an indianteepee,draw some nice linescrossing them all,bring in Pythagoras

In that same vein people draw all sorts of lines and make all types of mathmatical theories about the great pyramid at Giza. But we know (for the most part) what their achivements in math were as we have their mathmatical texts. And it doesn't support all the mathmatical theories that are made. Someone could look at the incredible quilts made by women on the American plains over 100 years ago and deduce all sorts of mathmatical knowledge that those ladies didn't have.

ReneDescartes wrote:First of all I am not anarchaeologist by trainig or profession.Science interests me very much ,exact sciences,human sciences,history ,etc.Lik everybody else I am trying to uncover whatever is revealed concerning the hypothetical existence of pyramids in Bosnia .I didn't bring in the Lepinski Vir civilisation into this .It was brought in to demonstrate the advanced capabilities of the mentioned civilisation regarding mathematics and writing .Stellarchaser linked me to a site which states the signs are symbols claimed by some to be writing,. Regarding the layout of the dwellings ,I see no advanced mathemarics involved at all .To claim that the people responsible for building those dwellings made use of advanced mathematics because they used a triangular shape instead of a square is beyond my understanding .By analogy I could very well lay out the pattern of poles of an indianteepee,draw some nice linescrossing them all,bring in Pythagoras So please feel free to instruct me here go allthe way to make your point but do not refer to a website where somebody else makes the same claim without concluding evidence .That is not proof . It is not even science .I "ve been wading through enough websites making the weirdest assumptions on verying subjects like the great pyramid,Stonehenge,Yhe gothic cathedrals linking them to occult knowledge using exactly the same techniques involving demonstrations with complicated geometrical patterns before .NO need to see them applied to simple dwelling at all .Why am I coming back to this?I think there are different ways of approaching the topic debated here .One would be to scrutinize the evolution of civilization in the Balkans and look on a timescale when exactly the conditions necessary for this gigantic enterprise would be most convenient .
We allready know that the Egyptian civilization was made possible by the existence of a rich agricultural production garanteed by the cyclesof the Nile .A similar situation of agricutural overproduction should have existed in Bosnia to allow enough ressources and workforce to be liberated .When would those conditions have existed ?
Again feel free to inform us all if you believe in those pyramids .

First of all I am not anarchaeologist by trainig or profession.

Than I apologize for my previous comments.

Regarding the layout of the dwellings ,I see no advanced mathemarics involved at all.

It's not my theory about advanced mathematics at Lepenski Vir. Not it's theory of amateurs. That theory was researched and proved by one of the greatest european archeologists, Mr. Dragoslav Srejovic. Again, one of the greatest, is not coming from me, but from european archeolgy community.

I said to you that I'm not good at mathematics, so I can't explain. But I'll try to get some scientific reports. Advanced mathematics knowledge of Lepenski Vir Culture is common knowledge. You said that you're not archeologist, and the fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean you're right about it, true?

To claim that the people responsible for building those dwellings made use of advanced mathematics because they used a triangular shape instead of a square is beyond my understanding.

Again, that claim was confirmed by whole bunch of archeologists who were excavating and researched Lepenski Vir culture sites. That is very easy to check in Archeology Institute in Belgrade.

So please feel free to instruct me here go allthe way to make your point but do not refer to a website where somebody else makes the same claim without concluding evidence .That is not proof

I gave you the link of the website just to anable to you to see how Vinca Script looks like, not to find any proofs about it. I also gave you refference book, where you will find proofs about it. So if you want proofs about Vinca script, I'm affraid you have to buy a book. Or again, to address archeologists in Belgrade.

Again feel free to inform us all if you believe in those pyramids

I DO NOT BELIEVE in anything. But I KNOW that Balkan peninsula florished in the neolithic times. If you make proper research, you'll see that Balkan peninsula was CULTURAL AND ECONOMIC CENTER of Europe in period 7.000 - 3.000 BC. That is not my claim but claim of numerous archeologists who researched this part of the world.

I also KNOW that one balkan culture was responsible for pyramid building in Greece around 3000 BC. Therefore:

Visochica Hill has shape of pyramid. As I said before, there are three options:

1. Some culture has built the pyramid.
2. Some culture reshaped the hill into pyramidal shape. (Barakat's theory)
3. The hill is interesting, and I would say, scarce natural formation.

As for possible archeological findings (beside confirmation for ONE of three above given options), I expect following:

1. possible findings from prehistory
2. possible findings from roman times
3. possible findings from mediaeval times.

That is what I think. So, we'll see. Only excavations can give answers we seek.

Katherine Reece wrote:

ReneDescartes wrote:I see no advanced mathemarics involved at all .To claim that the people responsible for building those dwellings made use of advanced mathematics because they used a triangular shape instead of a square is beyond my understanding .By analogy I could very well lay out the pattern of poles of an indianteepee,draw some nice linescrossing them all,bring in Pythagoras

In that same vein people draw all sorts of lines and make all types of mathmatical theories about the great pyramid at Giza. But we know (for the most part) what their achivements in math were as we have their mathmatical texts. And it doesn't support all the mathmatical theories that are made. Someone could look at the incredible quilts made by women on the American plains over 100 years ago and deduce all sorts of mathmatical knowledge that those ladies didn't have.

I'm very sorry that both of you have no will to investigate further what is confirmed by best and I would say, some of most respected european archeologists from Belgrade, who discovered and researched Lepenski Vir culture for decades. And it was them, not me, that have said that this culture had possessed advanced knowledge in mathematics. That theory was given by one of the most respected european archeologists, Mr. Dragoslav Srejovic. And fully accepted by archeological community.

Please put some efforts, if you really want to find out truth. Blind denying will ruin all debate here.

Minimalist wrote:I thought that Michael Ventris' decipherment of the Linear B tablets found by Evans on Crete proved that it was a primitive form of Greek?

Yes, and I think that was earliest form of Greek (around 2000 BC). That brings us to conclusion that PREHISTORIC culture in Greece have built pyraminds in that country. We can debate now were they Greeks or not, but the fact is that prehistoric culture was building pyramids on Balkan peninsula around 3000 BC. I'm saying prehistoric culture, because I believe there are no known written artefacts from that period. As far I know, earliest greek script is on linear B tablets from around 2000 BC.

Greeks are late-settlers,that have been allready proved with their writings,egyptian writings ,genetic research,archeological finds etc.
Old people from the Balcan have beared name in Greek language :Pelasgians witch means Native people and they have not been Illirians.Lepenski vir,Vinca and other illyrian settlers and settlements can be traced back to neolitic settlers starting from 7000 BC trought mains Balcan rivers.Older people who came probably in second wave from Africa during the Paleolitic have been gaderers and hunters,they havent sense for agricultural advancement.Now here lay one question which it is difficult to say.Did have in long time of thousand years this people to have ability for more advanced social grouping.Civilisation can shy for 3-400 years and die like nothing have hapened in thousand of years of existence of human in Paleolitic times in Balcan area.Did some people have in neolitic times advanced knowledge-Yes probably highly advanced
in some areas.Here are list on page 2 of NASA where are list of
Ancient Observatory Sites
1) Abu Simbel, Egypt
2) Stonehenge, Great Britain
3) Angkor Wat, Cambodia
4) Kokino Observatory, Macedonia
5) Goeck, Germany
6) Big Horn Medicine Wheel, Mont.
7) Chaco Canyon, New Mexico
Chichen Itza, Mexico
9) Machu Picchu, Peru
10) Hovenweep Castle, Utah
11) New Grange, Ireland
12) Templo Major, Mexico
13) Armenian Stonehenge, Aremenia
14) Luoyang Observatory, China
15) Masuda Iwafune, China

stellarchaser wrote: I'm very sorry that both of you have no will to investigate further

I have already said that I was willing to look at this ... I was merely ageeing with Rene that these things can be overstated.

So doI,in fact I looked up everything I could find on Lepenski Vir ,thanksfor informing me .I particularly was interested by the mathermatical hypotheses,because there area few,I admire mental exercise and efforts delivered ,it isallways interesting if somebody approaches reality from an original angle ,but that does not mean it isconvincing or even logical.For example take the famousdrawing from Da Vinci which Manpower at a certain stage used as their logo .You will find a human beïng perfectly aligned in a circle ,a pentagram ,triangles,etc.Does that mean we are designed this way ? The exampleof Lepenski Vir is even much less logical as the geometrical boundaries used to underscore the claim of an advanced civilization by far exeed the line up of the stones .I see nothing more than an illogical extrapolation or a mental exercise The fact that the area covered by each hut covers roughly 60 degrees of a circle involves nothing else than drawing a circle and drawing a few lines through the middle of it .
Do you realy think a neolithic civilization came up with advanced mathematics to build what looks and is a simple hut made of a few stones,branches ,twigs and a covering of grass ?Just look at it .

Regarding those Lepenski Vir huts, I'd like to point out that an equilateral triangle comes up when you try to mark an area with three equal-length sticks. And it probably could be done with just one or two.

It's quite advanced knowledge for a bunch of neolithic guys living on a lake shore, it seems to me that they had some understanding of geometrical figures, how to divide a line in two equal length lines, etc, but making triangular homes is not high mathematics

I suppose stellarchaser wasn't arguing that THAT was what made those guys so intelligent. There must be something else!

Just finished examining the claim made by some that the Vinca script was the first form of writing in human history .May I remind the authors of this thesis that their claims are not accepted by international scientific community unanimously as is the theory that sumerian scripture is the first example given by history .A good source of information is wickypedia on this subject or google,just type vinca script and enjoy .At least I did my homework and took time in examining all available sources on the internet to come to the conclusion that the theory of vinca symbols to be the first known example of human script is based on speculations lacking solid evidence .Sorry stellarchaser it seems to me we reached different conclusions .What made you and others so certain of your statement ?Do you have better information ?Again feel free to share .From the confrontment of ideas knowledge is born .

we are already up to half the amount of pages as part one and very little new has been posted or discussed. it is all posturing and political envy nothing about the site and what is there.has there been anything new found except for that false edge of a pyramid? (see my questions previously posted a few pages back)

Arch, they can only dig so fast.

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