Ancient Agriculture

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives ... armers.htm
The find­ings are one of sev­er­al re­cent stud­ies in­di­cat­ing that farm­ers of times past world­wide, from New Eng­land to the Am­a­zon rainfor­est, have left si­m­i­lar lega­cies of in­creased bio­di­vers­ity.

But while pre­vi­ous re­search had found such ef­fects last­ing for hun­dreds of years, the Tron­çais stud­ies in­di­cate they can per­sist strongly af­ter al­most two mil­len­nia, ac­cord­ing to sci­en­tists.
Roman settlements discovered due to the lasting effects of their agricultural practice. 8)
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daybrown
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Post by daybrown »

i read of soil cores in Greek river valleys that show when yeoman farmers first came in and cleared the land. But having more sons, some went further up the valleys, and eventually up on the benches of the valleys where the soil was thinner, and wore out after just a couple generations.

This produced revolution. Which replaced the yeoman with a landed aristocracy who didnt mind starving out some. One result was the move to Italy, where the pioneer process was repeated. then to Gaul. Then to Germany & Poland. There was so much more land there, and the population was wiped out a few times by plagues, that they didnt get to the aristocracy system again until the Junkers began manipulating the grain market.

So- millions of farmers moved to America. The change from pioneer to landed aristocracy usually takes a couple hundred years.
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Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

I think it's simpler than that DB. Agriculture and gardening is not that difficult. But as population increases, mankind must spread out.

Urban centers can pack people in like sardines in a can, but they look to the farmers for food. When climate and politics are stable, people totally forget where their food comes from.
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Digit
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Post by Digit »

Don't they just Beag!
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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daybrown
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Post by daybrown »

The data is ambiguous. But I can see the cities becoming more densely packed with those who are too stupid or crazy to grow food. I also see increasing numbers of smarter people getting the fuck out, and further out all the time, from 2.5 acre suburban lots to 25 or even 250 acres, and building hobby farms that are funded by the money they make telecommuting.

if the economy tanks, they at least will be well situated to grow their own food. The foreclosure rate can only go so high before they have to stop because the defaulting owners preserve the property better than squatters or vandals will.

I know property that was never officially foreclosed, altho the previous owners thot so and moved out, but then someone who knew the ropes, simply went and paid the taxes to become the new owner. Free & clear. No deal with the bank at all. The bank did not want to list the foreclosed property on their books, but shuffled the defaulted mortgage into the ozone of pending cases that never have action taken.

The ongoing dispersal out of cities begins to look like the Chalcolithic, in which there are a myriad villages dispersed across the land, each able to grow its own food, but up a level in integration from 'cottage level' to the 'small business' with a web presence for the global market. The cities could become defacto concentration camps.
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.
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Digit
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Post by Digit »

Between the worlrd wars DB the imports of cheap food stuffs put so many farmers out of business that the banks gave up on foreclosing, no one wanted to buy.
Now one of the townie's favorite hyms is about their having to subsidise farmers and claiming that it is unfair.
What the fools seem not to know is that the subsidies were introduced to keep prices down to those doing all the shouting.
The farmers can make a living alright, at the right price!
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/soci ... _2007.html
Peter Magnusson has been reading reports from the International Labor Organization, and finds this to be the most significant part:

Worldwide, in 1996 agriculture employed 42%, industry 21%, and services 37%. In 2006, the numbers are 36%, 22%, and 42%. So in the period, services has overtaken farming on a global scale.
To me this stuck out as the news of the day. This is a tremendous milestone. In the west we're accustomed to the farming sector being 4-6% or so, but that certaintly not true in most of the world. You might think the industrial revolution was a long time ago, but the reality is that more people have continued to work in farming. Until sometime in these past few years that is.
And thus passes a tremendous milestone in the history of our species. Farming, invented around 8000 BC, quickly dominated human activity and has so continued to for the following 10,000 years (give or take a few). And we even find that the tradition agriculture->industry->services transition doesn't hold up globally. The industry segment simply isn't big enough, so many workers skip to services.
In other words, today more of the world's workers are catering to other people, via the services industry, than are producing food. That really is earthshaking.
John Hawks on the fact that farming is dominating human activity less than ever before.
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daybrown
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Post by daybrown »

So far, so good. the Agricultural problem is the future. The *cost* of the drawbar hp in terms of fuel and infrastructure support, plus the *cost* of the fertilizer and petrochemicals has been supportable on the way up to Hubbard's Peak global oil production.

The perception of global commodity investors is such that the price of corn had more than doubled. Mexico has had riots because poor people cant afford the price rise.

The USDA estimates 150 bu corn/acre this year. If you look back to 1950, when corn was still raised on the farm with horses, crop rotation, & manure rather than diesel fuel for tractors, triple 19 fertilizer, & pre-emergent herbicides, you find they got 50 bu corn/acre.

And I dont think we can trust the posted numbers either. 6 weeks ago, I logged on to the USDA website to check on wheat, which they said was just coming in. ie, winter wheat, on the southern part of the wheat belt.

Well, I live i in the Ozarks, I know where that is: OK & TX. And at the time, if you recall, there was massive flooding on CNN from that same region. It rains outside the cities too does it not? Do they have a new kind of combine that works in swamps? Whoever was posting that analysis of the winter wheat harvest, was a bureaucrat in Washington, and not a farmer.

Like 911 or the budget allocations outlined by the Comptroller of the US, David Walker, the numbers just do not add up. Global food production is heavily dependent on the production of oil. No oil. No food. If a couple hundred million poor people have to starve so that Americans can put Ethanol in the SUV, no problem. It wont be on Fox or CNN, so it wont be happening.
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Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

I ran across some facts DB, and I'm adding a bit to your post. As you say, oil prices have everything to do with food prices - for many reasons. Even more so is water. Doomsday watchers can set there clocks by the fact that the underground aquifers in the Great Plains are being depleted.

Currently, 70% of the water used for agriculture comes from the Ogalalla aquifer in Kansas. I don't have figures on the other states but it's probably similar.

As ancient civilizations crumbled due to lack of water, we have been able to expand production by using resources that were unavailable to the ancients. Like the oil, the aquifers are limited. The Great Plains are so productive that we grow fat and also feed much of the world. But not forever.
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Post by Forum Monk »

One potential answer for world hunger is the "promise" of genetically engineered food products which can be grown under various adverse conditions. But, guess we need to find some third-world guinea pigs to sample the wares first.

Can't be too careful ya know.
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Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Beagle wrote:
As ancient civilizations crumbled due to lack of water,
Like the early holocene Sahara, or the Anasazi, or Angkor Wat.

we have been able to expand production by using resources that were unavailable to the ancients. Like the oil, the aquifers are limited. The Great Plains are so productive that we grow fat and also feed much of the world. But not forever.
Eventually we'll be fed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green.
Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

You're already eating genetically modified food, FM. There is nothing inherently unsafe about it, but it has has it's long term problems. As I've said before, I always grow some "heirloom"varieties.
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Digit
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Post by Digit »

GM food over here Beag is governed mainly by hysteria. Most people don't have a clue where their food comes from and some mods were achieved by irradiation and that started alarm bells ringing.
I do not know of any crop that has not been geneticaly modified by cross breeding and few people understand the differences.
Over here one of the GM crops that we do grow is Oil Seed Rape and as predicted by the antis it has 'escaped' into the wild flora and is of course resistant to most herbicides
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Post by Forum Monk »

Beagle wrote:You're already eating genetically modified food, FM. There is nothing inherently unsafe about it, but it has has it's long term problems. As I've said before, I always grow some "heirloom"varieties.
I know some genetically modified organsims are approved for human consumption but it does not mean there is a huge commercial presence of these items. I think if most US consumers knew they were eating GMOs there would be protest.

I think practically none is sold for human consumption in Europe (except perhaps the UK).

The favorable press comes from the industry and the negative press from the activists. Its hard to know the truth, so I prefer to error on the side of caution if possible.
:shock:
Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

I think if most US consumers knew they were eating GMOs there would be protest.
Most US consumers don't know it. GM foods comprise at least 25% of the food we currently eat. Honestly, FM, I'm not kidding here. These foods have been trickling in for 10yrs. now. The agribusiness giant, Monsanto, is the Corp. most responsible for it.
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