National Geographic

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:44 pm

Maybe on Monday I'll e-mail pando tech support about that. They were very helpful when I had a problem caused by my AV program.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:20 pm

I'm sure by now that everyone that requested the Toba movie has viewed it. We haven't discussed it, but I definately had some problems with it, and some questions.

It seems that humans were the only species on the planet to "bottleneck".
That's not logical.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:02 pm

Yes and apparently Neanderthal survived that fine but couldn't handle the end of the ice age.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:30 pm

Yep, that's the orthodox viewpoint all right.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:32 pm

Beagle wrote:Yep, that's the orthodox viewpoint all right.

I'm sure it's chiselled on the walls of the Clubhouse.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:35 pm

like duh
you really don't get it do you
the bottleneck was around 75,000 years ago
and the neanderthal extinction was around 25,000 years ago
yet you two think its the same event
and are claiming that the truth has been hidden by the club
this links just for you two
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant

fyi the orthodox viewpoint is actually supported by the facts
and is actually a viewpoint that evolved from the evidence
so what you are trying to claim is irrelevant is an idea that has evolved from purely orthodox evidence
so why not just claim that there was no bottleneck and no neanderthal extinction
after all
theres not going to be a single poster here that believes that HSN is extinct after listening to your logic

are either of you two musical ?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:38 pm

If no other species "bottlenecked" then why was Toba so homo-specific?.

When genetic science advances, there will probably be the obvious answer.

ravenwing5910 · Post by **ravenwing5910** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:22 pm

[quote="Beagle"]If no other species "bottlenecked" then why was Toba so homo-specific?.

I have not seen the program you all are discussing, but the question that I have is, why does Toba have to have anything to do with the bottleneck at all? seems to me that most of what we see on the tube is a bit off the mark for entertainment purposes or the fear factor, either way media is not always the best source.

Not disagreeing just asking.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:34 pm

The hypothesis was that when Toba exploded it devastated an enormous area through blast effects and launched so much ash into the atmosphere that it caused a nuclear winter scenario. The result of all this was that homo sapiens was nearly obliterated and the geneticists claim they can trace all surviving human populations back to a few thousand individuals who survived in East Africa.

They did not address questions such as why did Neanderthals apparently live through this until their eventual demise 50,000 years or so later. They did not address the question of why there is no associated mass extinction of animals. In spite of the nuclear winter apparently mammoths and others survived quite nicely until 11,000 BC when they disappeared under allegedly milder climatic upheavals. They did suggest that the surviving human population only survived because they learned to "cooperate" which flies in the face of reality. When resources for survival are scarce, humans tend to fight over them.

I agree wholeheartedly that tv tends to the superficial in "studying" these issues. It is a limitation of the medium which has a need, first and foremost, to sell advertising.

ravenwing5910 · Post by **ravenwing5910** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:47 pm

Hummmmm, I am going to have to do some research on the subject.. I have "heard" of the bottleneck, but this is the first I have heard of a catastrophic cause. The Toba scenario doesn't really make sense to me, raises the same questions that you have posted.

I do think I may wait for spring break, finals week you know.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:56 pm

What! Spring break in the library as opposed to Cancun?

ravenwing5910 · Post by **ravenwing5910** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:06 pm

if I could afford Cancun, I would go camping in Hellas

besides I am much to old for Cancun. One of those people that had to work instead of go to school. Now that I am back in school I decided to do what I want to do (archaeology) instead of what I had to do (something sensible).

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:40 pm

ravenwing5910 wrote:I decided to do what I want to do (archaeology) instead of what I had to do (something sensible).