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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:09 pm
by kbs2244
Re: The current at the Straights of Gibraltar
With lower water levels could there not have been alternating tidal flow? Like we see in other narrow mouthed but large bodies of water? The Gulf of Baja, The Gulf of Fundy, etc?
And thus a quiet time between them?
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:35 pm
by Digit
That's what I was asking, if so there would have had to have been a period of slack water.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:37 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
The slack water period between high and low tides – a.k.a. 'dead tide' – lasts no longer than 20 minutes.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:55 pm
by dannan14
Would it be possible to begin rowing when the straits were calm then catch the eastward flowing current?
You might have to go dozens of miles east before landing, but that is a tiny distance compared to travelling to mid-oceanic islands.
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:46 am
by Digit
20 mins maybe, but not exactly followed by a tidal wave, nor preceeded by such.
Navigating
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:40 am
by Cognito
Assessing the current in antiquity was probably quite easy. Just throw some wood pieces into the water, assess their speed, and watch where they wind up. Whenever people began using sails it would be simple to cross over - just pick a wind at your back against the current. If you miss the other side, just row to shore after leaving the current. Sails and hand oars may have been used 50,000 years ago (see:
http://www.asa3.org/archive/asa/199907/0064.html ), if not earlier. A quote from the article:
"To me the most fascinating aspect of this was what I learned. Crete apparently was first colonized 50,000 years ago. This means that mankind was sailing the Mediterranean for at least that long. And interesting, he cites a skeleton found on Crete of this age that combines Neandertal and human traits."
If sailors could reach Crete, crossing over at Gibraltar would be a snap. If people were fishing in the area that long ago, they were probably crossing back and forth consistently.
"Hey, mate! Give me a ride to the other side today and I'll give you this deerskin coat." 
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:30 am
by Digit
So if he could make it to Crete he could make it to Spain whilst dodging the Straits. Nuff said!
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:02 am
by kbs2244
Yes, but...
Spain and Crete are pretty far apart, with Italy/Sicily in between.
I would have to say we are talking about two different source populations.
How much connectivity did they have on the Africa side?
What kind of technology interchange?
Why would there be a northward population push across the whole of the north coast of Africa?
In later history the Med was divided into East and West spheres of influence. And the technology transfer was a lot higher then.
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:22 am
by Digit
I see little reason to assume that people at one end of the Med at that period would be any different or techonogicllay retarded than people at the other end. Why cross to Crete, or elsewhere in the first place, and if so, why not the other islands and mainland?
Man had migrated to every inch of this planet well before any population pressure appears to have made that a necessity
Crete
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:08 pm
by Cognito
Discovering Crete 50,000 years ago is quite a feat. Someone was wandering through the ocean in something navigable, headed somewhere "other than here". Not only was Crete located, but hominids settled on it.
As Digit says, if that could be done about 50,000 years ago, crossing 7 miles of ocean in a strong current while staring at your destination would have been simple in comparison. Far simpler than sailing almost 100 miles from mainland Greece into the unknown.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:53 pm
by Beagle
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 181040.htm
Varanasi (PTI): After a gap of 50 years, a team of archaeologists will be excavating two sites near Noida and Meerut to determine when exactly the "eastern limit" of the Indus Valley civilisation flourished.
Alamgirpur village in Meerut-Baghpat and Bulandkhera village in Gautam Buddh Nagar districts "are believed to be the eastern most limits of the Harrappan culture" and the last time the area was surveyed was in 1957-58.
"We expect the excavation to throw light on this aspect as well as others of the ancient civilisation. Archaeological Survey of India last conducted a dig at Alamgirpur and Bulandkhera in 1957 and 1958," professor Parasnath Singh, head of the department of Ancient Indian History, Culture and Archaeology at Banaras Hindu University, told PTI.
Over the years, local residents have stumbled upon artefacts like coins, pottery and other items besides a mummified body of a woman wearing bangles in villages on the cusp of Meerut and Baghpat districts - home to Hastinapur detailed in the epic Mahabharata.
The artefacts found are believed to date between 1500 BC and 700 BC, but have not been carbon dated.
Prof Singh said a team of experts in archaeology, geology and zoology besides supporting staff would be conducting the digs and analyse the findings.
He said the ASI had been informed about the project and its approval was expected shortly.
This is the entire article. From Arch. News.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:21 pm
by MichelleH
If any of our fine members have access to Science Magazine, online or in print, I would appreciate a 'book report' or review on this current article!
UNMASKING THE INDUS: Boring No More, a Trade-Savvy Indus Emerges
Many, Many thanks!
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:24 pm
by Beagle
MichelleH wrote:If any of our fine members have access to Science Magazine, online or in print, I would appreciate a 'book report' or review on this current article!
UNMASKING THE INDUS: Boring No More, a Trade-Savvy Indus Emerges
Many, Many thanks!
Michelle, I don't have access to Science, but there is a short interview in this PDF with Lawler about his article. Go to page 9 where the interview with him begins. It's not much but it may give you a pretty good idea what the article will cover.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/data/320/5881/1366b/DC1/1
Past 11 pm here. Sleep calls.
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:43 pm
by MichelleH
Beagle wrote:MichelleH wrote:If any of our fine members have access to Science Magazine, online or in print, I would appreciate a 'book report' or review on this current article!
UNMASKING THE INDUS: Boring No More, a Trade-Savvy Indus Emerges
Many, Many thanks!
Michelle, I don't have access to Science, but there is a short interview in this PDF with Lawler about his article. Go to page 9 where the interview with him begins. It's not much but it may give you a pretty good idea what the article will cover.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/data/320/5881/1366b/DC1/1
Past 11 pm here. Sleep calls.
Excellent Beags, thank you!
P.S. Sleep is overrated....
Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:16 pm
by Ishtar
Thanks Beagle.