p.s. there were no neanderthals, at best they were either pre-noah's flood society or they were just another race of people who had advance knowledge similar to the minoans or other ancient civilizations.
if people were honest you would see much diversity in the human skeletal form even among each modern race or nation of people. disease, deformity, and other factors play a role in the variety of skulls that are discovered and to build a whole theory based upon a few bones is ridiculous.
it shows the desparation of the secular researcher in avoiding the reality of life.
still waiting for the answers to my questions, if you were honest and really wanting people to know how you came to your or the article's conclusions then answers need to be forthcoming. i am really interested inthe answers to the question)s) about which expert is correct.
Neandertal/Neanderthal
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
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marduk
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Guest
Geenome sequencing , mtDNA , racemization of bone samples ,
and your reply was
"there was no neandertal"
or they were noahs diseased ancestors !!
and you want people to take you seriously ????
I give you scientific evidence and answers and thats the best
you can come up with , thats pathetic !!
You profess to wanting serious debate , then deny any serious
work done , deny all evidence out of hand .
What is the point of conversing with you if thats all you have to offer ???
If you have evidence to refute this or any serious research that shows otherwise please post it , if not then there is no point posting any reply .
and your reply was
"there was no neandertal"
or they were noahs diseased ancestors !!
and you want people to take you seriously ????
I give you scientific evidence and answers and thats the best
you can come up with , thats pathetic !!
You profess to wanting serious debate , then deny any serious
work done , deny all evidence out of hand .
What is the point of conversing with you if thats all you have to offer ???
If you have evidence to refute this or any serious research that shows otherwise please post it , if not then there is no point posting any reply .
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marduk
Homo neanderthalensis or H. sapiens neanderthalensis is an extinct species of hominid of the genus Homo, commonly known as Neanderthal man (spelling varies slightly). The earliest specimen of this species was found in Neander valley (the German word "thal" means valley). The modern spelling of "thal" is "tal," so many now refer to the species as "neandertals" instead of neanderthals. But the old spelling is always retained for the Latin species designation. Not all paleoanthropologists agree with making the neanderthals a subspecies of Homo sapiens. Those who accept this classification refer to the other subspecies, modern humans, as H. sapiens sapiens.
Neanderthals are thought to have existed from ~130,000 years ago to ~35,000ya (in the archaic) and to have co-existed with humans for some of that time.
[edit]Anatomy
Diane L. France describes the neanderthals as follows: "Neanderthals are late archaic H. sapiens and are found only in Europe and the Near East (western Asia). The cranial capacity is very large (actually larger as a group than modern humans—likely because of decreased encephalization, though this is difficult to discern from endocranial characteristics). Neanderthals have long crania, and a bun-shaped occipital bone. The brow ridges are still pronounced, but not as pronounced as in Homo erectus. The forehead rises more vertically from the brow ridges than in H. erectus (though not vertically as quickly as in modern H. sapiens. The face projects forward. The postcranial skeleton is large and robust. Examples of Neanderthal remains include the classic La Chappelle aux Saints from France, with an extremely large cranial capacity (1620 cc) and dated to approximately 50,000 years ago." (Physical Anthropology 2004:176-177)
[edit]Culture and technology
The neanderthals used Mousterian technology that improved upon previous Levallois techniques to obtain more flakes per stone core. These flakes were then shaped into points, scrapers, and knives. They lived in open sites, rock shelters, and caves. There is evidence at Moldova in the Ukraine of a tent that enclosed an area of about 26 by 16 feet with several hearths and hundreds of tools. The large number of animal bones at neanderthal sites prove that they were hunters, even going after large mammals. But the neanderthals did not possess spear throwing (atlatl) or bow and arrow technology. Limited to using spears at close range, the neanderthals could suffer serious injury, a hypothesis supported by Berger and Trinkaus in 1995 by examining the trauma in skeletal remains. Neanderthals also ate plants such as berries and nuts. The neanderthals often buried the dead as seen from grave sites at La Chapelle, La Ferrassie, Tabun, Amud, Kebara, Shanidar, and Teshik-Tash. Artwork is uncommon, unsophisticated, and unlikely to have been a focal point for multiple individuals (as is the case with some upper paleolithic art). It is unknown to what extent the neanderthals could use language. The neanderthals are widely regarded as an evolutionary "dead end," possibly diverging from modern humans as long as 690,000 to 550,000 years ago according to Krings. (The information in this paragraph is derived from Jurmain et al., Introduction to Physical Anthropology, 2000:337-351.)
[edit]Fossils
The first neanderthal fossil was found in 1856 in the Neander Valley, Germany. No fossil hominid had been found before then and few scientists, let alone lay people, had been influenced by the work of Charles Darwin. The prevailing philosophy of the time could not explain why we should find extinct human-like species and, without evolution to explain them, many dismissed the bones as an arthritic cripple.
Creationists still repeat some of these early claims, though they no longer hold any credibility:
Neanderthals are thought to have existed from ~130,000 years ago to ~35,000ya (in the archaic) and to have co-existed with humans for some of that time.
[edit]Anatomy
Diane L. France describes the neanderthals as follows: "Neanderthals are late archaic H. sapiens and are found only in Europe and the Near East (western Asia). The cranial capacity is very large (actually larger as a group than modern humans—likely because of decreased encephalization, though this is difficult to discern from endocranial characteristics). Neanderthals have long crania, and a bun-shaped occipital bone. The brow ridges are still pronounced, but not as pronounced as in Homo erectus. The forehead rises more vertically from the brow ridges than in H. erectus (though not vertically as quickly as in modern H. sapiens. The face projects forward. The postcranial skeleton is large and robust. Examples of Neanderthal remains include the classic La Chappelle aux Saints from France, with an extremely large cranial capacity (1620 cc) and dated to approximately 50,000 years ago." (Physical Anthropology 2004:176-177)
[edit]Culture and technology
The neanderthals used Mousterian technology that improved upon previous Levallois techniques to obtain more flakes per stone core. These flakes were then shaped into points, scrapers, and knives. They lived in open sites, rock shelters, and caves. There is evidence at Moldova in the Ukraine of a tent that enclosed an area of about 26 by 16 feet with several hearths and hundreds of tools. The large number of animal bones at neanderthal sites prove that they were hunters, even going after large mammals. But the neanderthals did not possess spear throwing (atlatl) or bow and arrow technology. Limited to using spears at close range, the neanderthals could suffer serious injury, a hypothesis supported by Berger and Trinkaus in 1995 by examining the trauma in skeletal remains. Neanderthals also ate plants such as berries and nuts. The neanderthals often buried the dead as seen from grave sites at La Chapelle, La Ferrassie, Tabun, Amud, Kebara, Shanidar, and Teshik-Tash. Artwork is uncommon, unsophisticated, and unlikely to have been a focal point for multiple individuals (as is the case with some upper paleolithic art). It is unknown to what extent the neanderthals could use language. The neanderthals are widely regarded as an evolutionary "dead end," possibly diverging from modern humans as long as 690,000 to 550,000 years ago according to Krings. (The information in this paragraph is derived from Jurmain et al., Introduction to Physical Anthropology, 2000:337-351.)
[edit]Fossils
The first neanderthal fossil was found in 1856 in the Neander Valley, Germany. No fossil hominid had been found before then and few scientists, let alone lay people, had been influenced by the work of Charles Darwin. The prevailing philosophy of the time could not explain why we should find extinct human-like species and, without evolution to explain them, many dismissed the bones as an arthritic cripple.
Creationists still repeat some of these early claims, though they no longer hold any credibility:
GV
The retrieval of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences from four Neandertal fossils from Germany, Russia, and Croatia has demonstrated that these individuals carried closely related mtDNAs that are not found among current humans. However, these results do not definitively resolve the question of a possible Neandertal contribution to the gene pool of modern humans since such a contribution might have been erased by genetic drift or by the continuous influx of modern human DNA into the Neandertal gene pool. A further concern is that if some Neandertals carried mtDNA sequences similar to contemporaneous humans, such sequences may be erroneously regarded as modern contaminations when retrieved from fossils. Here we address these issues by the analysis of 24 Neandertal and 40 early modern human remains. The biomolecular preservation of four Neandertals and of five early modern humans was good enough to suggest the preservation of DNA. All four Neandertals yielded mtDNA sequences similar to those previously determined from Neandertal individuals, whereas none of the five early modern humans contained such mtDNA sequences. In combination with current mtDNA data, this excludes any large genetic contribution by Neandertals to early modern humans, but does not rule out the possibility of a smaller contribution.
In conclusion GV though interbreeding may have been possible the evidence does not support it
The retrieval of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences from four Neandertal fossils from Germany, Russia, and Croatia has demonstrated that these individuals carried closely related mtDNAs that are not found among current humans. However, these results do not definitively resolve the question of a possible Neandertal contribution to the gene pool of modern humans since such a contribution might have been erased by genetic drift or by the continuous influx of modern human DNA into the Neandertal gene pool. A further concern is that if some Neandertals carried mtDNA sequences similar to contemporaneous humans, such sequences may be erroneously regarded as modern contaminations when retrieved from fossils. Here we address these issues by the analysis of 24 Neandertal and 40 early modern human remains. The biomolecular preservation of four Neandertals and of five early modern humans was good enough to suggest the preservation of DNA. All four Neandertals yielded mtDNA sequences similar to those previously determined from Neandertal individuals, whereas none of the five early modern humans contained such mtDNA sequences. In combination with current mtDNA data, this excludes any large genetic contribution by Neandertals to early modern humans, but does not rule out the possibility of a smaller contribution.
In conclusion GV though interbreeding may have been possible the evidence does not support it
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marduk
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Guest
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marduk
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Guest
if they were hunters that would put them post-flood, as all evidence for pre-flood days points towards vegetarianism.The large number of animal bones at neanderthal sites prove that they were hunters, even going after large mammals
you gave a possibility that is all, it doesn't prove that they were a separate species or different from humans.I give you scientific evidence and answers and thats the best
you can come up with , thats pathetic !!
all you hold up is conjecture or thinking that falls in line with the accepted history. you really can't corroborate anything because if you could you would have answered my questions by now.You profess to wanting serious debate , then deny any serious
work done , deny all evidence out of hand .
i wonder which scientists you are taking that 'eveidence ' from, the one who agrees with the article or those who disagree with it? when you get a 100% consensus on what happened and who these ancestoers are, then i will bring out my information.
as it stands you have to many avenues to use to change your story and none of them are credible.