Global warming.

[Minimalist]

Two possible futures....





or...

[Digit]

I'll put my money on an ice age Min.

Roy.

[Digit]

I see today that the NAS has stated that Mann's 'Hockey Stick' is 'Seriously Flawed'!
No shit Sherlock!

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Dig, there is something going on, though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/617698 ... ssage.html

Two German merchant ships have sailed through the once impassable North East Passage after global warming and melting ice opened a route from South Korea along Russia's Arctic coast to Siberia.

[Digit]

Minor point there Min. Ships have being doing it since the 17C!
It was in regular use for a time till Muscovy stepped in and stopped it for fear of what them furriners were doing oop north!.
But as Ish would say, don't let the facts get in the way of a good disaster story, it sells newspapers.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

This fellow does not seem to agree.

"We are seeing an expression of climate change here," said Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. "The Arctic is warming; we're losing the sea ice cover. The more frequent opening of that North East Passage is part of the process we're seeing."

"The Arctic is becoming a blue ocean," Mr Serreze said.

For the last few years, including this year, navigator Roald Amundsen's famous North West Passage has been navigable. Then in 2007, the more crucial deep water channel called M'Clure Strait opened up and now the Northeast Passage, Serreze said. The passage "is the traditional choke point," Mr Serreze said.

[Digit]

Earlier this month Min the Sec Gen of the UN left his ice bound ship and was filmed pontificating about the melting of the Northern Polar ice.
Not one mention of the fact that Nansen sailed some two hundred miles further north before becoming ice bound passed his lips. Back in 1900 and something that was!
So what do you reckon?

Roy.

[Minimalist]

It looks like less ice to me.

[dannan14]

Not just less ice, but much younger ice. i think that is significant.

i've been very busy lately and haven't had time to read much of the links posted in this thread. Is there a hypothesis that explains why this new discovery of this cold water current means that humans are not affecting climate change as much as Gore et al think? Or is it simply assumed that because the models are now known to be wrong that we can't be a significant source?

Dod that make sense? i just woke up hehe. ND lost yesterday so i got good and drunk.

[Digit]

What it clearly demonstrates D14 is that scientists, not for the first time, have been making statements based on insufficient evidence!
When people think they know all the answers they tend to stop asking questions.
What I dislike about the Pros is their bullying tactics against anybody who doesn't sign up for the new religion and Mann's consistant suggestion that he is right and everybody else is wrong.
The NAS is one of the world's most prestigiuos bodies, but they are wrong and Mann is right! BS!!!

Roy.

[Minimalist]

NASA photos

[Digit]

Anything earlier Min?

Roy.

[Digit]

Take a look at this Min. Why the difference I wonder?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/18/n ... ow-extent/

I noted particularly that the greatest loss is the sea between Alaska and Russia, exactly as predicted by the world's number one Polar Bear researcher, (whose name escapes me at the moment.) He claims that global warming is due to external forces and changes in sea currents, he also states that the Polar Bear numbers are on the increase where they are not hunted.
I also noted a complaint a few weeks ago that this particular gentleman has been refused the oportunity to speak at the coming climate summit. The reason given is that his views don't accord with the message that the meeting wishes to promote.
Now there's good science and freedom of speech for you.
Do you wonder I don't believe in the new religion? Their dogma has much of the Church about it I think.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Anything earlier Min?

Roy.

I don't know when NASA started paying attention. Some would say they should worry more about asteroids, anyway.

[Minimalist]

Latest on the ice cap issue from ScienceDaily.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 144131.htm

ScienceDaily (Sep. 18, 2009) — The Arctic sea ice cover appears to have reached its minimum extent for the year, the third-lowest recorded since satellites began measuring sea ice extent in 1979, according to the University of Colorado at Boulder's National Snow and Ice Data Center.