Neandertal/Neanderthal

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marduk

Post by marduk »

i wonder which scientists you are taking that 'eveidence ' from,
I knew it
Arch you can't even spell evidence
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The first neanderthal fossil was found in 1856 in the Neander Valley, Germany. No fossil hominid had been found before then and few scientists, let alone lay people, had been influenced by the work of Charles Darwin
The first Neanderthal skeletons were unearthed in Belgium in 1829. However, it wasn't until 1856 that the name was given to this species, after more remains were found in the Neander Valley, near Dusseldorf.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

if they were hunters that would put them post-flood, as all evidence for pre-flood days points towards vegetarianism.

And....what "evidence" might that be?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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john
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Post by john »

Genesis Veracity wrote:I mention something like that in my new book Ice Age Civilizations, that just because people live simply, doesn't necessarily mean they're stupid, just ask Thoreau.
thoreau was a middle class americanski, who had the leisure time (provided by his family and the emersonian transcendentalists) to create his own private utopia of one. in other words, an attractive freakshow. i believe that there are plenty of other accounts in 19th cent. history which demonstrate another, far darker side, to the argument.

although i do not have the book at hand, i remember a sarcastic thoreau diatribe on a family moving their earthly posessions down the road, and how poor they were, and why move all that crap, etc. i believe this was from "walden pond".

followed at some point by henry's statement that "no one is so poor as to have to sit on a pumpkin".

therefore, henry's jump on the latter emily post was that eminent people used actual chairs, and those "below the salt" used pumpkins.


j

ps.

ahhh,

always, in everyone,

the great social divide!
Tech
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Post by Tech »

Arch
If you want to debate , please refute with tangible evidence or wiith at least constructive logical rebutal .
Your inane replys are infantile and hold no meritous information with which to argue , offer evidence , research , results .
Facts are what I require , not erroneous drivel .
Guest

Post by Guest »

sorry i am out of this topic now unless someone honestly and concisely plus seriously answers my questions that i posed long ago.

to make excuses for not answering only underscores the lack of credibility of those who advocate such theories and the lack of honesty that permeates those that adhere to them. i am not talking about the moral character but the actuall observations of proclaimed 'evidence'.

when a person wants to believe a theory while rejecting another it is not hard for them to see what they want to see (which i have mentioned before through quotes).
Tech
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Post by Tech »

I really dont know why I bother but in answer to your original questions.
First off , how can there be written records of neandertal , did you check the timeline ? its millenia before the written language .
Second , did you even read the research I posted ? Dna is irrifutable scientific evidence of existance its only a 96% match to HS dna and they are even now mapping the complete nuclear genome .
More bones of Neanderthals are known than for any other fossil hominine group, including some 30 nearly complete skeletons, so this preoccupation you have with limited evidence is wrong .
For your Reference: Krings et al, 1997. Neanderthal DNA sequence and the origin of modern humans.
or http://www.paleoanthro.org/nmuseum.htm
Though im sure you know more than the 90 scientists who are experts in paleoanthropology
another http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs ... html#title

As for artifacts , they number in the thousands and have been extensivly researched by competent scientists
another ref http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/16/5705

Clive Finlayson led the international team of palaeoanthropologists, which discovered 103 neanderthal artifacts, including spear points and knives, while excavating Gorham’s Cave near the Rock of Gibraltar. Most of these artifacts have been dated to about 28,000 years before present (BP), and some are dated as late as 24,000 years BP.

The amount of evidence available is staggering and the existance of neandertal man is without question .

If this doesnt answer your questions then you have a closed mind that will accept nothing , and any reason you have to post in this forum is null and void .We are all here to learn if you dont want to...........
marduk

Post by marduk »

and any reason you have to post in this forum is null and void
he doesn't post in this forum with a reason he's a troll
he's also a liar
like he claimed he wouldn't be posting this week because he'd be away
and yet
here he still is posting his normal rubbish
deny deny deny
its quite clear Arch that the only person here with a problem with christianity is you
everyone else can take or leave it
your attempts to push it down everyones throats won't win you any converts but does prove how insecure you are about it
safety in numbers you don't have
:lol:
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

so this preoccupation you have with limited evidence is wrong .

It's a mantra for him, Tech. He repeats the same thing over and over.

If you'll notice, "science" never has complete or even useful evidence but his fairy tales, which have no evidence to support their outlandish conclusions, are perfect representations of the world. It's a childish belief system that he is trying to pump up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Starflower
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Post by Starflower »

And another article in our news that mentions our popular neandertals.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... itain.html

They seem to be in the news a lot lately.
After several more unsuccessful incursions, the Neandertals (often spelled "Neanderthals") strode over to the British Isles around 60,000 years ago and survived by hunting big game, researchers say
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

"Give us the timber or we'll go all stupid and lawless on your butts". --Redcloud, MTF
Guest

Post by Guest »

another wonderful theory based on nothing:
No human remains were found, but more than 30 flint tools have been unearthed, providing sufficient proof of human occupation
30 tools prove occupation?? that is a laugh.
The climate was almost Mediterranean, and there were animals like hippopotamuses, hyenas, and lions roaming around," said Simon Parfitt, a mammal fossil specialist based at the Natural History Museum in London.
well that sounds like proof for a pre-flood world not an ice age one.
It's hard to say what the Pakefield people were like, Parfitt says. But the kind of tools they used and the animals they hunted indicate that the Pakefield settlers were more human than ape.

"Essentially they would have been very robust early humans, who walked about on two legs and subsisted from hunting and gathering," he said
that is some leap to a conclusion---from 30 tools to a robust human. their conjecture is getting bolder every day. no human remains to prove this leap yet the proclaim it like itis true.
The findings are changing the way that scientists perceive the Neandertal people. "It seems they were a lot more savvy than people give them credit for," White said
they haven't found anythng substantial nor to corroborrate their thinking yet they believe their own theories and again change their stories. I Am NOT THE FOOLISH ONE.

so if stone age tools are proof of neanderthals, what do we call the stone age tribes still found in the amazon forest? or papau new guinea? or indonesia? and so on.

all the stone tools tells us is that there were a group of people not as advanced as any other.

here is a problem for you to solve: since the stooped posture of a old skeleton is a signof a neanderthal species how will archaeologists view koreans in a 1000 years?

many of the older women and some of the men here are frozen in a bent over shape due to a life of hard work and having to bend over while doing it. arthritis has made it impossible for them to stand up straightand they have to walk with their backs to the sky. there are enough of these people that this is a common site in the cities here.

will these unfortunate people be branded as the future's equivelant of neanderthals? will they be classified as a species that died out hundreds of thousands of years ago and were of the stone age because their remains were found in traditional korean housing? (not everyone lives in modern day apartments here)

to create a species on what little evidence they have plus conjure up a whole way of life for them, is not only stupid but irresponsible.
Tech
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Post by Tech »

Arch
I gave you all the answers you asked for . you ignored them
I have only one more conclusion to make
You are a close minded MORON !!
Guest

Post by Guest »

it is interesting to reflect on how evolutionists think. in another forum it was mentioned that creationists avoid knowledge or are anti-knowledge which drew many responses. one i liked pointed out this little fact:
You are telling us that before Darwin there was no learning. No education of even scientists
case inpoint see tech's latest response.

prior to evolutionary thinking, people built pyramids, cities, civilizations, monuments cr4ossed oceans and have simply defied the logic of modern man. since the evolutionary thinking man has decided it has come from nothing, nations dumb down their education as the generations pass (and so on) and has been on a self-destructive path ever since darwin.


quite a difference. now given tech's latest response:

gave you all the answers you asked for . you ignored them
I have only one more conclusion to make
You are a close minded MORON
i saw no answers to the questions he claims to have submited. i may have missed it but highly unlikely. any response he gave did not address the questions i asked except maybe DNA. again he did not bother to answer the question which expert is right and so on. plus he calls me a close minded moron but does not realize nor observes that his post came after a post i made thus making sure he can use a personal attack on me. you will notice that i changed articles and was addressing a different theory

he obviously limits his response because he has no answer to the others and picks the one that is in a field that i am weak on hoping to prove his point without actually producing anything credible. yet he refuses to acknowledge theother side of DNA which is thatit has its weaknessess like anyother scientific conclusion. his blind belief in science colors his observations and helps him to ignore the facts of life.

anyways before darwin when creation was the only real option knowledge was not ignored but used in a variety of methods which enhanced society.
marduk

Post by marduk »

plus he calls me a close minded moron
so do the vast majority of posters at this forum
even the other creationsist thinks you are a closed minded moron
you are in a majority of one here Arch
don't you ever wonder why that is ?
:lol:
Tech
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Post by Tech »

Arch

You asked about DNA- I supplied all the latest evidence including the research to completely map the nuclear genome of neandertal

You asked about artifacts I supplied info and links which even cited where they were found , who was working on them and what credentials they had

You asked about written history That was just idiotic as the last neandertal died out about 23k before the first written language

You asked about Bone fragments Again i supplied the info and links showing evidence of about 30 skeletons which is More than any other fossil hominine group

Those were the questions , but you dont want to know because it doesnt fit with your way of thinking , I apologise for the personal attack but your inane avoidence of factual evidence would tire one of your saints

Oh and you are close minded
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Post by stan »

right on, tech
The deeper you go, the higher you fly.
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