Deleted

[Cognito]

Yeah, I'm not real sure either, Pat. Your right though: as you get into the 40,000-50,000 B.P. range with 14C dating, the maximum end becomes very uncertain.

Charlie, note that Al Goodyear is stopping at the carbon date limit (being about 50,000ybp). I wonder what he would come up with if he was using U/Th? Reminds me of Bill Murray in "Baby Steps". The Clovis first crowd might be able to get used to 50,000ybp but 145,000ybp like your site would earn Al a cover picture on Mad Magazine as far as they are concerned.

[Minimalist]

The bottom line is $$.

Yeah...what does a C14 test cost as opposed to the others?

[Cognito]

Yeah...what does a C14 test cost as opposed to the others?

Hey Min, C14 is the least expensive of all the tests, primarily because the equipment has been around for the time (some is fully depreciated). To date a handful of samples is about $1,000. To date the same amount of samples with thermoluminescence is about $6,000 (I have a quote for this one). The next time I speak with Budinger at Calico I'll ask him about a few of the others (Uranium/Thorium, Beryllium, etc.). Or, just get me your credit card info and we'll find out that way, alright?

That smooth talkin' Texan has schmoozed the boys from USGS and Berkeley to test his samples for free ... they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think Charlie was on to something. After all, they'll get to sit back and throw turds into the punchbowl if Charlie's samples are as old as they suspect!

(That's OK, Charlie ... you and I will be flinging turds right along with them!)

[marduk]

they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think Charlie was on to something.

oh no it must be a trap by the club
Quick min stop them from laying their hands on the samples and you can save alternopseudohistory for the rest of the conspiracy theorists

[Charlie Hatchett]

Charlie, note that Al Goodyear is stopping at the carbon date limit (being about 50,000ybp). I wonder what he would come up with if he was using U/Th? Reminds me of Bill Murray in "Baby Steps". The Clovis first crowd might be able to get used to 50,000ybp but 145,000ybp like your site would earn Al a cover picture on Mad Magazine as far as they are concerned.

Good point, Pat. I could very well see Goodyear saying to his researchers, "let's stop right there for now". Surely he's had some U-series dating performed, though?

Lol @ Bill Murray! I love his stuff!!

[Charlie Hatchett]

Yeah...what does a C14 test cost as opposed to the others?

Hey Min.

Cog is right about the cost of 14C dating. Jim Bishcoff told me the U/Th dating is more expensive, but I'm not sure by how much? You have to remember, in my case, the cost of extremely skilled labor was covered (in addition to the lab costs).

[Charlie Hatchett]

Or, just get me your credit card info and we'll find out that way, alright? Very

Min can be our philanthropist!!

[Charlie Hatchett]

That smooth talkin' Texan has schmoozed the boys from USGS and Berkeley to test his samples for free ... they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think Charlie was on to something. After all, they'll get to sit back and throw turds into the punchbowl if Charlie's samples are as old as they suspect!

(That's OK, Charlie ... you and I will be flinging turds right along with them!)

I know many geologists are plain fed up with the archeologist's, for the most part, bowing to theory, and not accepting the new data, because it's "not possible".

I've not even had one archeologist, in academia, even ask about the site, needless to say visit and collect samples. The site is apparently very taboo.

Wussies!!

[Minimalist]

"not possible".

I understand The Club sells t-shirts with that phrase emblazoned over a picture of a guy with his head stuck up his ass.

[Cognito]

they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think Charlie was on to something.

oh no it must be a trap by the club
Quick min stop them from laying their hands on the samples and you can save alternopseudohistory for the rest of the conspiracy theorists

Marduk, you know how I feel about conspiracies. There are no conspiracies and no clubs. However, there are a few hard-headed archaeologists in North America and elsewhere. Bischoff will test something for free if it will overturn the applecart since he doesn't particularly care for some of the status quo American archaeologists ... that was my point. (Ref: discussion with Fred Budinger in December regarding Bischoff).

Do status quo archaeologists require hard evidence? Of course, and for good reason. Will they shoot down everything during the interim? Absolutely. While good science requires exacting evidence, part of being an archaeologist involves approaching new ideas with an open mind. Some of these guys apparently were sleeping through that part of thier Archaeology 101 course.

Marduk, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today or has it just been too long since you had some? If it's the latter, I'm sending you my step-daughter on a one-way ticket (Ms. Globe 2002). And no, you still aren't getting an allowance!

[Manystones]

Thinking about the accuracy of radiocarbon dating I happened upon the following link..

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/22/news/carbon.php

reading this I wondered

Does anyone know whether the dates used to arrive at the "Clovis first" theory have been reviewed along these lines?

[Charlie Hatchett]

Does anyone know whether the dates used to arrive at the "Clovis first" theory have been reviewed along these lines?

Hi Richard.

I know many archeologists use an uncalibrated figure, versus a calibrated figure, for the very reasons the link you provided discusses: fluctuating atmospheric 12C and 14C levels. However, uncalibrated dates still assume 12C levels have remained constant throughout time. We know that's not the case:




Like that new avatar of yours.

[Minimalist]

With the usable figures for C14 at about 50,000 years does it really matter what the fluctuations were 3.5 billion years ago? In that sense, 50,000 years is the blink of an eye.

[Charlie Hatchett]

With the usable figures for C14 at about 50,000 years does it really matter what the fluctuations were 3.5 billion years ago? In that sense, 50,000 years is the blink of an eye

Yeah, but what about 12C levels? If they were higher in the past, then the ratio 14C/ 12C (12C ca. CO2) will indicate an exaggerated age. Interestingly, many Carboniferous samples indicate an age of < 50,000 B.P. This is a period when many plants where buried, and created a CO2 sump, i.e.- very low 12C.

[Minimalist]

Agreed but if the entire atmosphere was CO2 during the Cambrian...so what? C14 can't go back that far, anyway. The whole purpose of calibration is to try to account for the variables, isn't it?