Noah's Flood...

[marduk]

since Noah pre-dates the sumerians it is not a large leap to conclude who copied whom or who altered the texts. certainly wasn't God.

Noah is a hebrew name
Hebrew developed around 1200bce
the texts i speak of date from pre 2700bce

I'd like to see them, marduk.

just for you heres an extract from a book i'm currently writing, this is from chapter three called Enlil and Enki

"in Sumeria the belief that gods controlled all things was very prevalent. Gods made the grass grow; they made the sun come up and made the rainfall. I guess it’s a need of mankind to believe that when things go wrong it isn’t our fault. Blame someone higher up and we feel personally vindicated and sleep better at night. Of course blaming a god can be a large error if he isn’t responsible and can hear you. Which is why in all cases that Enlil is blamed for sending the flood the text isn’t actually Sumerian. It’s Akkadian. The Akkadian empire followed Sumer in Mesopotamia and was primarily a Semitic culture the same as Judaism is today. The civilisation was based on the Sumerian model and used the same alphabet although the language itself was different in the same way that today French and English use the same alphabet but the language is different. This is the point at which many of the old stories were mistranslated and entered human consciousness in the form that we recognise them today. For example if you still have any doubts that the god worshipped around the world today by Catholicism and Judaism isn’t Enlil then how do you explain the details contained in the flood that he was said to have sent.
Details such as
Gilgamesh: -
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.

Genesis 7
8 And he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth

Gilgamesh
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Genesis 7
7 And he sent forth a raven, and it went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth

Even the wording is unchanged, he sent forth a bird, then sent forth another bird, the only thing that is markedly different between these two stories is the ending where YHWH proclaims to Noah “I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done”
The reason for this difference comes down to the timing of the individual stories creation. The first was written after Enlil had fallen from favour as the head of the pantheon. The world was now under the protection of Enki who had never sent a flood and had actively participated in lessening the effects of the first one whereas the Noah story was written at a time when early Judaism desperately needed something to believe in and wanted to keep that belief as a way forward. In other words YHWH was a keeper and Enlil had already been discarded.
Funnily enough neither story mentions ducks. If there had really been an actual global deluge then by now ducks would be the dominant species on this planet. They’re just about the only creature that isn’t affected by rainfall and really isn’t bothered by how high the water rises. You couldn’t plan a global devastation intending to blot out man from the face of the earth and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air without planning for ducks could you. Does this mean that God loves ducks more than mankind? Or are they creatures of Satan over which he has no control. Just why do ducks get such favourable treatment when it comes to global floods
“This is because the great deluge was a reality” says the church, “this is because we live on a planet that is 4/5 covered with water” say scientists.


ETCSL (Electronic Texts Corpus of Sumerian Literature) is an oxford based sumerian texts resource that is regarded as 100% orthodox
http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/
if you don't understand how to use it things can get a little difficult

this site takes its translations directly from ETCSL
http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/
scroll down to the bottom for a comprehensive list
Inanna and Iddin Dagan is interesting because Iddin Dagan was a mesopotamian king verified by archaeology who in all the texts he appears in is lamenting the destruction of Ur (later known as Ur of the Chaldees by the hebrews who didn't realise that in Iddin Dagans time Chaldea didn't exist)
his name means "pure water of totality"
in Sumerian that is AB.RA.HAM
His son was called Icme Dagan
in hebrew that Icme is pronounced Ishme, and dagan being the sumerian word for Totality is pronounced El
ISHME.EL
no sign of Isaac though or his Ram stuck in a thicket unless you count these two statues which were excavated from the Ur cemetary and dated to circa 3000bce
this one is in a pennsylvania museum

and this one is in the british museum which Arch already stated he doesnt trust

there is another text where Iddin Dagan is described as the rightful Enlil which means of course that just like in egypt with the horus kings Iddin Dagan was claiming providence by procaliming himself a reincarnation of Enlil, which in turn means of course that Enlil is just an epithet for a high king
which is why there are so many stories about him from different time periods (all of which predate Judaism by quite a stretch)

No ones expecting you to respond to this Arch and i seriously wouldn't attempt it if i were you because i am quite an expert in this field which you in turn taking everything on faith and having just three books on ancient texts in your library are woefully underequipped to deal with.
this is a nasty secular belief system at work which requires evidence from its supporters
your faith based system is just as good for living your life by
stick with that

if you're right i get punished for this later yes ?
if I'm right then nothing happens to you at all
so youre in the win win situation here aren't you

[Minimalist]

Thanks.

(There's a lot there to wade through.)

[marduk]

takes some people a whole lifetime
thats because they're not looking properly

[Guest]

Rehwinkle wrote too long ago to be an authority on geology.

have you read the book?? geology does not over rule the evidence nor is the final word on the matter, it also relies heavily on interpretation from sources that are suspect in their honesty and ability to be objective.

he may have written 50 years ago but that doesn't remove him from being credible. justlike darwin is cited as an authority who wrote about 150 years ago. you can't have it both ways, if your sources are valid despiute their age, then my sources are valid despite their age.

this is just another attempt to keep the playting field uneven and slanted in favor of evolution. nice try, doesn't work. such statements come solely from arrogance and a need to feed a superiority complex.

as a said before, rehwinkel provides evidence that supports the global flood account, at no time did i represent him as an expert in any field but read his book and learn something.

[marduk]

if someone were to tell you that they found evidence of the largest flood to affect mankind that did rise to mountain top level and did affect 90 % of the mtdna blood groups on earth causing a huge catastrophie and it affected an entire continent (their entire world) and the survivors later spread out and carried the story around the globe
would you be happy that it was the event that led to the flood deluge stories that followed in later religions
or would it be neccesary to find a flood that covered all the mountains on earth for you to say that was the one Arch ?

[Guest]

would it be neccesary to find a flood that covered all the mountains on earth for you to say that was the one Arch ?

i am not worried about that at all. i have already posted quotes that provide enough evidence for the biblical flood account.

[Minimalist]

Quotes, again.

"Quotes" are opinion...not evidence.

[Essan]

what do the initials BP stand for? is this another new dating system because people got tired of 'b.c., a.d. and b.c.e.'?

Correct speaking BP is 'Before 1950' .... A convention which avoids the confusion whereby 1,000 years Before Present today will be 1,001 year Before Present next year.

In geology we tend to use kya (thousand years ago) for recent events (ie 8.5kya for the cold spell that started around 6,200BC) . A hundred years here or there rarely makes a difference

[Guest]

Correct speaking BP is 'Before 1950'

why is 1950 so special? of course i prefer b.c. & a.d. as it keeps things simple and gives us a better idea of when something took place.

k.y.a. is understandable and i guess useful, i guess it is noce to have such indiviuality and not conformity here.

[Minimalist]

i prefer b.c. & a.d. as it keeps things simple

Also they are considered terribly politically incorrect.....which is why I insist on using them.

[Beagle]

The AC/BC system has always been used in Western countries. It's still acceptable in most places but in scientific circles the "newer" dating system is more politically correct for global purposes. Eastern cultures don't recognize the term "anno domini" and even find it offensive sometimes.

We all know what we're talking about here though and it's not a big deal.

[Guest]

The AC/BC system

????

We all know what we're talking about here though and it's not a big deal.

i guess that comment applies to the above quote as well

[Beagle]

My typo. Correct that to AD, as in "anno domini" (year of our Lord).
It does not mean After Death.

I can't type worth a flip.

[Minimalist]

I thought you meant AC/DC.

[Guest]

he could have meant: AC = after electrical current & BC = before electrical current--- that could be a bone fide dating system since it has a definite start and end point--ha.