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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:13 pm
by ravenwing5910
Minimalist wrote:Anyone remember Geraldo Rivera and "Al Capone's Vault?"
Hawass is getting just like that.
Hey! Hawass is my hero, it's not nice to compare heros to geraldo.
I better read the rest of this forum....
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:33 pm
by Minimalist
Hawass is good at what he does....which is promote tourism and be the face of ancient Egypt.
I equate him to the old Dr. Zaius character in Planet of the Apes. He is the director of Science but he is also "defender of the faith." He seems terribly wedded to the idea that Egyptian history is exactly as the Egyptologists have laid it out...
Complete with a 4th dynasty sphinx and a Great Pyramid which was built as a tomb for one man in about 20 years....at a rate of one block every two minutes in spite of the fact that no one can re-produce the mechanism for actually doing that.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:01 pm
by Forum Monk
I don't have an opinion on Hawass personally (we have a thread for him already) but I do have some fundemental problems with the rigidness of othodox Egyptian and Mesopotamian history. These histories are defended vigoruously by a 'quasi-religious' faithful at the expense of all other views. I think, for example, some revisionists have made excellent cases for new chronologies and I think they could make very interesting discussion on future threads.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:53 am
by Digit
The new Chonologies have been a debate for as long as I've been around Monk and I think there are some strong arguments in its favour.
If my memory hasn't failed me, when Evans started at Knossos his first attempts at dating were based on the presence of Egyptian pottery and dated according to the then current chronology and caused some conflict with the probable age of the Knossos site.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:47 pm
by Minimalist
Yes he did.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology ... ossos.html
In one of the old storerooms that Evans discovered in the palace at Knossos, stood rows of huge, vase-like jars that once contained oil. The oil vessels were ornamented in rich, elegant detail. Evans measured the volume of each of the containers and calculated that the inventory of the storeroom contained around 19,000 gallons of oil. Some pottery had a foreign origin, particularly Egyptian. The Egyptian pottery were from particular periods in Egyptian history and helped date three periods of Minoan history, an Early Minoan Period from 3000 to 2000 BC, a Middle Minoan Period, proceeding until 1600 BC and a Late Minoan Period lasting until around 1250 BC.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:39 pm
by Minimalist
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/03/2 ... 0320100000
Pyramid's Secret Doors to Be Opened
Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News
Digg This! Del.icio.us
March 20, 2007 — Doors will soon open to reveal one of the mysteries of the Great Pyramid in Giza, Dr. Zahi Hawass, chief of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities, told Discovery News in an exclusive interview.
Built in 2550 B.C. for the pharaoh Cheops, also known as Khufu, the Great Pyramid is the largest of a family of three pyramids on the Giza plateau, on the outskirts of Cairo.
Nice to see the Club getting in its plug for orthodoxy!
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:45 pm
by Beagle
Who do think will get the film rights?
History, Discovery, Nat. Geo?
Some serious money is going down here.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:07 pm
by Minimalist
Why not give it to Cameron and Jacobovici?
Think of what those two could find?
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:23 am
by Digit
Or Mickey and Donald.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:37 am
by Minimalist
And the French weigh in!
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/sci ... 405133.ece
According to his theory, the first stage of construction used a traditional external ramp that led up to a height of 43 metres from the base. Once completed, this volume of material would account for more than 70 per cent of the pyramid's total mass.
The next stage involved building the internal ramp in the shape of a spiral. "It was like a tunnel with a covered roof, but open to the sky at the four corners of the pyramid so that the stone blocks could be turned," M. Houdin said.
Fire away.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:44 am
by Beagle
http://www10.mcadcafe.com/nbc/articles/ ... eid=373411
Dassault Systemes' real-time 3D solutions enabled Jean-Pierre Houdin to model and explore the pyramid in 3D and run simulations confirming his theory that the pyramid was built from the inside!
The secret of the Great Pyramid, the sole survivor of the Seven Wonders of the World, has fascinated people throughout time. Countless theories exist as to how it was built, but none stands up to analysis. In 1999, Houdin had an insight and decided to devote himself to developing his theory. Eight years of passion and research ensued, whereby he imagined the construction site of Kheops as the first industrial construction site in history. To further refine and test his theory, he called on Dassault Systemes to help. As part of its "Passion for Innovation" sponsorship programme, DS decided to help Houdin solve the 4,500-year-old mystery with its real-time 3D solutions.
This article, posted at Maat, is about this same fellows theory. It's interesting but I'm not all that impressed. I wonder where the concrete theory went. We should have heard something back on that one by now.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:52 am
by Forum Monk
Too bad there is nothing to see in the article.
General comment - the french have done some pretty remarkable work in the area of 3-D computer graphics and they have openly shared their work with the rest of the world. It will be interesting to see what they've discovered. True on not, I am sure the presentation will be impressive.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:54 am
by Minimalist
It doesn't answer the time issue.
Dragging stones through a small internal tunnel seems as if it would take more time, not less.
As far as the "counterweight" idea goes....Frank had the same idea last year. It's logical except the Egyptologists claim they did not have that technology and besides.....it would also seem to take longer because you would have to drag the counterweight back into place for each stone you raise. Plus, the counterweight stone would have to be larger than the stone being hauled in order to overcome the force of gravity.
That seems as if it would take longer as well.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:29 pm
by Forum Monk
Geesh Beag, when you were at Ma'at why didn't you bring this link back with you?
http://khufu.3ds.com/introduction/
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:38 pm
by Digit
Many theories are mechanically possible, the problem nearly always is the supposed time scale. In addition I find it extraordinary that AEs are supposed not to have produced lifting gear when it is also supposed to have been used in Europe much earlier.