Caral, Peru

[marduk]

Your previous question remains valid.

Where did they suddenly get the idea to build a city with pyramids? There should be some intermediate forms.

[Frank Harrist]

That looks like a pretty good migration route to me. We know that early man sailed to australia so why not? Aboriginal skull types have been found in extreme south america and other places. As yet that hasn't been satisfactorily explained. Pyramids? That's just the easiest way to stack shit high. Nobody had to teach them how to stack shit high. The bering land bridge was a migration route, but definitely not the only one.

[Minimalist]

Easter Island:

http://islandheritage.org/eihistory.html

From what we know of the material culture, language, and customs, it seems that the original settlers came from either the Marquesas Islands or from Mangareva around 400-600 CE. They may have stopped at other islands along the way. Finding this isolated island seems a miracle.

American Samoa

http://www.amsamoa.com/tourism/history.htm

Linguistic and cultural evidence suggest that the first Samoa inhabitants migrated from the West, possibly by way of Indonesia, Vanuatu, Fiji and Tonga, to the eastern tip of Tutuila near the present village of Tula around 600 B.C..

Pohnpei (Fed States of Micronesia)

http://www.visit-fsm.org/visitors/history.html

The oral histories of the Micronesian people indicate close affiliations and interactions in the past among the members of the island societies comprising the present-day FSM. The Lelu ruins in Kosrae (1400 AD) and the Nan Madol ruins of Pohnpei (1000 AD) are impressive reminders of the accomplishments of these early peoples.

The Land of Mu

http://hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/produc ... ctid=16311

The Land of Mu was a huge continent situated in the Pacific Ocean between America and Asia, its center lying somewhat south of the equator. Basing its area on the remains which are still above water, it would have been about six thousand miles from north to south. All the rocky islands, individually and in groups, scattered over the Pacific Ocean were once a part of the Continent of Mu.

Cataclysmic earthquakes destroyed Mu about twelve thousand years ago. The Pacific Ocean rushed in, making a watery grave for a vast civilization and sixty million people. Easter Island, Tahiti, Samoas, Cook, Tongas, Marshall, Gilbert, Caroline, Marianas, Hawaii and the Marquesas are but the remnants of that great land, standing today as sentinels to a silent grave

Now don't get me wrong, marduk, it's encouraging to see you step away from orthodoxy! Surely, survivors from the land of Mu would end up in South America and eventually recover enough to begin to re-build their culture.

[Minimalist]

Pyramids? That's just the easiest way to stack shit high

Hmmm..... yes and no. The concept may be easy but the actual doing takes a shitload of work.

Besides, lots of other cultures have apparently resisted the temptation.

[Cognito]

Would anyone here be able to find a map of the Pacific during the late pleistocene when sea levels were 400 feet lower? And please, no maps of Mu. Thanks.

[Minimalist]

I ran a search but found nothing useful.

I'll dig out my copy of Underworld and see if Hancock's inundation maps show any of the central pacific. As I recall he was more interested in the Indian Ocean but it's been a while since I read it.

[marduk]

Now don't get me wrong, marduk, it's encouraging to see you step away from orthodoxy! Surely, survivors from the land of Mu would end up in South America and eventually recover enough to begin to re-build their culture.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mu-lost-continent

History of the concept
Augustus Le Plongeon
The idea of Mu first appeared in the works of the antiquarian Augustus Le Plongeon (1825–1908), a 19th century traveler and writer who conducted his own investigations of the Maya ruins in Yucatán. He announced that he had translated the ancient Mayan writings, which supposedly showed that the Maya of Yucatán were older than the later civilizations of Atlantis and Egypt, and additionally told the story of an even older continent of Mu, which had foundered in a similar fashion to Atlantis, with the survivors founding the Maya civilization. (Later students of the Ancient Maya writings have found that Le Plongeon's "translations" were based on little more than his vivid imagination.)

James Churchward
This lost continent was later popularised by James Churchward (1852–1936) in a series of books, beginning with The Children of Mu (1931), The Lost Continent Mu (1933), and The Sacred Symbols of Mu (1935). The books still have devotees, but they are not considered serious archaeology, and nowadays are found in bookshops classed under 'New Age' or 'Religion and Spirituality'.

you were saying how did the natives know how to build temples with no previous evidence of a precursor
those red dots on the map all show structures that show no previous evidence of a precursor

sometimes like someone else said
if youre going to build up you start with a wide base and pile the rest of the shit on top
watch a 5 year old with building blocks for a while
then ask him how he knows how to build a house with a larger base than its top
for you then the mystery will be solved

[Minimalist]

you were saying how did the natives know how to build temples with no previous evidence of a precursor
those red dots on the map all show structures that show no previous evidence of a precursor

Ah...I thought you were suggesting that all those other sites WERE precursors to Caral.

I had hope for you for a moment, there.

[stan]

Hooray!
I am glad you guys have jumped on this topic. I have been on
vacation in the Appalachians for a couple days, photographing rare flowers.
..............
My impression is that the earliest manifestation towards pyramids at Caral might have been just one long rectangular terrace....and then another on top of it. Not from big piles of dirt to serving as royal tombs. As I said earlier, like theFrank lloyd wright prairie style of architecture.
This is one reason you needn't look for an external source for pyramids. The speculation about a civilization arriving intact from Mu or somewhere in Asia seems misdirected. As some of you have said, "stacking" is a pretty basic impulse.
I think we ought to give credit to the Caralians and their ancestors for having the means(Mental and physical) to create this entire culture. For example, those circular arenas or plazas seem to be unique, and not at all related to neolithic henges.
If the Sumerians could be the "first" to invent a means of writing, why couldn't the Caralians be the first in their neighborhood to build some large ceremonial structures that
evolved into what we call pyramids?
As for intermediate forms, I have a feeling that they just haven't been discovered yet. Maybe some of the smaller sites along teh Supe River will give some clues when they are fully studied.
This is just the way it seems to me. In a way we are looking at history being made as we speak...The archeologists don't have their stories together.
I am still interested in the skulls...and the dna,too.

[Beagle]

Stan, have you read anything about their religous beliefs? Other than being "somewhat" oriented to the NE I haven't seen anything.

[Beagle]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa ... es&spell=1

After reading several sites from Marduks url I have to reconsider the mesoamerican/pleides connection. I have always heard via literature and TV that Venus was the only astronomical influence on the area in terms of religion and calendrical orientation.

But hey - it seems that the Pleides played a role. How much - I don't know. But thanks Marduk.

[stan]

No, Beagle, I don't know anything about religion at Caral.
But it is claimed that there is a circular altar atop one of the pyramids where
an eternal flame burned...not sure how they know that.
One wonders if they practiced human sacrifice.

As I understood Marduks post to me about venus vs plieades, it makes more sense that a huge permanent monument would be aligned to a constellation because its path is more permanent, However, another planet does not have the same "year" as the earth.

And still there's the question about the hemispheres. That would make as much difference in alignment as procession, wouldn't it?

[Minimalist]

http://www.crystalinks.com/preinca.html

There are several myths about Pre-Inca Civilizations. As with all ancient civilizations, legends and ancient stone carvings and monuments speak of creation by gods who came from the skies, yet no one is certain how any of these civilizations came into being. Many just seem to spring up as if out of no where.

[marduk]

crystal links is not a reliable source

[Minimalist]

You don't think anything is reliable unless it is certified by "The Club."

You know.....in a lot of ways you are like Arch with his goddamn bible!