Stellarchaser wrote:Fortuneteller wrote:
As you said, Osmanagic publishes “everything”. Why does not he then provide more scientific evidence? He meets politicians, the representatives of the army and charity organizations, and he meets with just about everybody except the Bosnian scientific community. Why is that so? Why does Osmanagic behave that way?
Stellachaser wrote:
To answer first your question why they are not providing scientific evidences: Do you really think that every bit of excavations there is not well documented and filmed? No matter what you think about archeologists and geologists there who work on Visocica, they are experts in their field and they are doing it proffesionally. There could be a reason why all of us just getting pictures that we're getting.
My personal opinion is not important in this case. Scientific evidences are what matter. I am not an archeologist, but I am quite familiar with research methods and the way scientific communities operate. So far, Osmanagich’s and his experts did present us with a couple of reports that they labeled “scientific”. It did not take us a lot to realize what kind of reports we were looking at. Those were doctored reports and reports without any factual evidence. Osmanagich and his people tried to cheat, but they could not. I am referring to the Tuzla report (see previous posts.)
Secondly, I joined this forum in other to learn how professional archeologists felt about the affair. It seems as if this gang have some suspicions about the way Osmanagich’s experts execute the dig. Having passed peer reviews myself, I can tell that this crowd is rather benevolent. Os has no clue what is takes to present and defend scientific evidences. As a mater of fact, even if there were pyramids in Bosnia, Osmanagich does not have strength and skills to present and defend the case. He and his experts, so far, could not even engage serious archeologists into discussion. Quite opposite, Osmanagich does a damn good job in alienating both Bosnian and international experts.
Stellarchaser wrote:Don't forget that many nasty things have been said about them and their excavations in the world wide public from the start.
The excavation has not been open for scientific communities. A team of geologists from Tuzla went to the site, took the samples, and wrote their report. Osmanagich tried to hide this report from us. The Os' foundation was open for politicians, rock stars, the Austrian army, primary school students and tourists. Openness towards scientific communities is a totally different game.
Stellarchaser wrote: It can easily happened that proves will be published at worse moment for their opponents. I have the feeling that Mr.Harding will be first "colateral damage" victim when they present their findings:)
You are saying that Os is playing some sort of a political game. He has chosen the way of confrontation. Instead to make an effort to get Mr. Harding on his side, our Os has decided to challenge Mr. Harding and many other archeologists. I am referring to the article in the Archeology magazine and the UNESCO letter.
http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... pdate.html
No need to comment on Osmanagich’s ego at this point. I am leaving to the members of this forum to speculate what would be the best for the enterprise, that is, whether to have Harding’s support, or not.
Let’s wait to see Osmanagich’s scientific reports. Os is a double major (politology and economics) and a Ph.D. Candidate at the University of Sarajevo. True, Os could not remember the name of his mentor when he was talking on TV, but let’s not be petty.
In addition, Osmanagich senior is a scientist (among other things), who published 8 books and about 90 papers worldwide (
http://www.rajvosa.net/libs.asp?id=SV001).
Therefore, we could expect the highest possible quality from the Osmanagichs. So far, we have seen only a couple of pseudo scientific reports. When will they publish the real stuff? Did they say by the end of June?
Stellarchaser wrote:As I said many times before I don't consider Osmanagic too important of all this story, apart of the fact that he raised (successfully) question of Visocica Hill, which was neglected for decades by local science.
There were reasons for this neglect, which I am not going to discuss in this forum. Let’s keep the national politics out of this. Os is currently struggling with the basics of scientific methods. Unfortunately, we are not getting to the point at which we can discuss the political context, because there is still nothing that would resemble scientific evidence.
Stellarchaser wrote:But let's be fair and say that Osmanagic personally sent two letters to national Museum, asking participation and help from archeologists there and he never got reply. Furthermore, here in Bosnia there were several TV programmes (talk shows) with Osmanagic and local archeologists, including those from National Museum from Sarajevo. Of course, dialogue was mostly bitter, but osmanagic kept calling archeologists to join. So I think we can't blame Osmanagic for not speaking with bosnian scientific community.
Specifically Osmanagich’s poor performance at those talk shows was what caught my attention. I saw him talking with his opponent Mr. Zilka Kijundjic-Vejzovic from the National Museum (
http://www.zemaljskimuzej.ba/english/archeology.htm)
She opened the show by asking if Os was an archeologist. I though it was totally inappropriate, because it had nothing to do with the facts and the actual discovery. A couple of days later, I saw the “Stop Taliban” petition. I thought they overreacted. Eventually, I tried to find Osmanagich’s references, and guess what I found - New Age books, doctored reports, etc. I started to wonder if Ms. Zilka and the petitioners had known something that I could not sensed. I started my research.
By the way, how did these people from Germany manage to cooperate with the National Museum?
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... n%26sa%3DN
How did professor Johannes Mueller manage to cooperate with the museum?
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... te%2Eshtml
Finally, why did the museum help me when I needed a favor from them? I am not even an archeologist. Maybe they were kind because I did not tell them that they belong to 19th century. My point is, Osmanagich cannot talk as a scientist. True, he is very eloquent and he might learn it one day.
Stellarchaser wrote:And just for the record, main argument of local archeologists was that they don't believe that there could be a pyramid. So whole thing about pyramid, I'm affraid revolves about religion and faith. Same as creacionists and evolutionsts believe in their theory, but none of them produced so far credible evidence.
I wouldn’t be afraid that this affair is matter of religion. The “mother of all pyramids" and 8 smaller pyramids in Bosnia are not so subtle objects. Osmanagich made the claim, and he is supposed to present the evidence. We are looking forward to seeing the scientific proofs.
Stellarchaser wrote:F9 is completely right: excavation on Visocica Hill is not osmanagic's private enterprize, but project of Visoko Museum. So obviously, part of bosnian scientific science IS not only speaking with osmanagic, but actually working with osmanagic this very moment. So right address for all your comments would be Visoko Museum, rather than osmanagic. As I said before several times, Visocica Hill is on location that was settled from neolithis times. So I presume that Museum in Visoko knows very well why started these excavations.
Who are the scientists from the cantonal museum of Visoko that work with Os? We heard about Sead Hodovic, who has a Ph.D. in Marxism. Could you please provide the names and references of scientists who are associated with the cantonal museum Visoko and who are involved in the search for the pyramids? Thank you!
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