Pre-Columbian settlement.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Here, Charlie....I only scanned it but it is from 2005 and discusses drainage of glacial meltwater.

Make sure you take a look at Figure 5.

http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/~ ... 202006.pdf

Cool, Min.

One leg of the drainage was "Straight Down the Mississippi, to the Gulf of Mexico"...Sound familiar:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... 0Creek.mp3

Of course, we can't forget the stops in between:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... emphis.mp3

Make sure you take a look at Figure 5.

Yup. 14,500ish, a huge spike in drainage, which implies an abrupt rate change in glacial melting. Something happened...and most seem to think it was an extraterrestrial impact, of some kind.

But what do you think the N.A. legends mean by the earth cracking open, and springs flowing forth. I’m trying to figure out if a terrestrial impact would some how cause the internal pressure to increase within the earth interior, causing it to burst, so to speak...or maybe just the impact (s) directly caused the bursting, of sorts.

...just brainstorming...

[Minimalist]

But what do you think the N.A. legends mean by the earth cracking open, and springs flowing forth.

By the time they dragged themselves out of the mud to figure out what the hell had just happened they simply had no other way to explain all the rivers and streams suddenly overflowing their banks. There would not have been a local cause...like a storm or even several storms in a row. One day, because of an event 1,000 miles away, the front edge of the flood simply reached them out of the blue.

These glacial lakes were blocked by ice dams. They would not have needed a reason to crack as the immense pressure on one side and the warming climate on the other would have sealed their fate.

[Digit]

Just to be all mysterious on you Charlie and Min, do either of you recall what Einstein was working on at the time of his death?

[Charlie Hatchett]

By the time they dragged themselves out of the mud to figure out what the hell had just happened they simply had no other way to explain all the rivers and streams suddenly overflowing their banks. There would not have been a local cause...like a storm or even several storms in a row. One day, because of an event 1,000 miles away, the front edge of the flood simply reached them out of the blue.

These glacial lakes were blocked by ice dams. They would not have needed a reason to crack as the immense pressure on one side and the warming climate on the other would have sealed their fate.
_________________

Plausible hypothesis. Can you imagine an 150 meter wall of water coming out of nowhere...holy s**t. I don't think any of us living today can really get a grip on the power of an 150 meter water wall, hauling ass down stream. Some awesome power there, boys!! The U.T. tower is only 94 meters tall:



Throw on another 56 meters...

Or the Texas State Capitol at 100 meters:



Throw on another 50 meters...

[Charlie Hatchett]

Just to be all mysterious on you Charlie and Min, do either of you recall what Einstein was working on at the time of his death?

Nope, but you've definitely piqued my curiosity.

[War Arrow]

But what do you think the N.A. legends mean by the earth cracking open, and springs flowing forth. I’m trying to figure out if a terrestrial impact would some how cause the internal pressure to increase within the earth interior, causing it to burst, so to speak...or maybe just the impact (s) directly caused the bursting, of sorts.

...just brainstorming...

And responding to said brainstorming, the preHispanic Nahua believed mountains were somehow full of water, a conceit possibly fuelled by observation of mountain springs. This is covered in Tamoanchan, Tlalocan - Places of Mist by Alfredo Lopez-Austin (University Press of Colorado) and Eating Landscape - Aztec and European Occupation of Tlalocan by Philip P. Arnold (also University Press of Colorado) which quotes Sahagun's Florentine Codex (book 11, page 247) thus:

And they [the Aztecs] said that the mountains were only magic places, with earth, with rock on the surface; that they were only like ollas (or vessels) or like houses; that they were filled with the water which was there. If sometime it were necessary, the mountains would dissolve; the whole world would flood.

Given that this idea was not restricted to the Nahua, but variations appear in other cultures (Lopez-Austin cites the Huichol) possibly even those of Peru (Arnold page 122 note 35 - although I need a bit more detail to confirm this) it might not be so inconceivable that the idea of mountains-as-water-stores was widespread (in one form or another) throughout the Americas, as is true of trickster archetype figures and the general attitude to sacrifice/pain etc. So perhaps the image of the earth cracking open is an attempted explanation of real events rather than a literal record of something observed.

[Beagle]

do either of you recall what Einstein was working on at the time of his death?

Sorry to butt in, but I like trivia questions. Einstein worked until his death on the Unified Field Theory (I love science). It never came to fruition.

He had also endorsed much earlier the theory of the nuclear bomb and urged governments to give up further research and use, untill he died.

None of this seems to fit the milieu of your question, so I'm gonna guess and say that Einstein had endorsed and was in correspondence with Hapgood regarding his theory of the shifting of the Earths crust.

[Charlie Hatchett]

But what do you think the N.A. legends mean by the earth cracking open, and springs flowing forth. I’m trying to figure out if a terrestrial impact would some how cause the internal pressure to increase within the earth interior, causing it to burst, so to speak...or maybe just the impact (s) directly caused the bursting, of sorts.

...just brainstorming...

__________________________________________________________


And responding to said brainstorming, the preHispanic Nahua believed mountains were somehow full of water, a conceit possibly fuelled by observation of mountain springs. This is covered in Tamoanchan, Tlalocan - Places of Mist by Alfredo Lopez-Austin (University Press of Colorado) and Eating Landscape - Aztec and European Occupation of Tlalocan by Philip P. Arnold (also University Press of Colorado) which quotes Sahagun's Florentine Codex (book 11, page 247) thus:
Quote:
And they [the Aztecs] said that the mountains were only magic places, with earth, with rock on the surface; that they were only like ollas (or vessels) or like houses; that they were filled with the water which was there. If sometime it were necessary, the mountains would dissolve; the whole world would flood.

Given that this idea was not restricted to the Nahua, but variations appear in other cultures (Lopez-Austin cites the Huichol) possibly even those of Peru (Arnold page 122 note 35 - although I need a bit more detail to confirm this) it might not be so inconceivable that the idea of mountains-as-water-stores was widespread (in one form or another) throughout the Americas, as is true of trickster archetype figures and the general attitude to sacrifice/pain etc. So perhaps the image of the earth cracking open is an attempted explanation of real events rather than a literal record of something observed.

Interesting hypothesis. Especially since the belief was held by various cultures.

[Digit]

As you say, Einstein was working on his field theory, he also incurred the wrath of the club by his extension Wegener's continental drift ideas. He who also had barrow loads of s--t heaped on him at first. Einstein was argueing that, as the continents could drift so, he believed, could the entire crust!
As with Wegener, he could not prove his ideas, but pointed out that like all good theories it answered a mass of problems. He pointed out the northern hemisphere's massive ice fields during the last ice age must have caused the Earth a number of problems with angular velocity and that one of two things may have occurred. If the ice built up gradually then the planet could have made the necessary adjustment to its tilt and angular velocity etc, but what would have happened if the either the ice vanished rapidly or if the imbalance caused by the enormous off centre mass became insurportable in some way.
His suggestion was that the entire crust slipped to return the planet to a satisfactory state of equlibrium.

[Bruce]

Quote:

But what do you think the N.A. legends mean by the earth cracking open, and springs flowing forth. I’m trying to figure out if a terrestrial impact would some how cause the internal pressure to increase within the earth interior, causing it to burst, so to speak...or maybe just the impact (s) directly caused the bursting, of sorts.

...just brainstorming...

__________________________________________________________


And responding to said brainstorming, the preHispanic Nahua believed mountains were somehow full of water, a conceit possibly fuelled by observation of mountain springs. This is covered in Tamoanchan, Tlalocan - Places of Mist by Alfredo Lopez-Austin (University Press of Colorado) and Eating Landscape - Aztec and European Occupation of Tlalocan by Philip P. Arnold (also University Press of Colorado) which quotes Sahagun's Florentine Codex (book 11, page 247) thus:
Quote:
And they [the Aztecs] said that the mountains were only magic places, with earth, with rock on the surface; that they were only like ollas (or vessels) or like houses; that they were filled with the water which was there. If sometime it were necessary, the mountains would dissolve; the whole world would flood.

Given that this idea was not restricted to the Nahua, but variations appear in other cultures (Lopez-Austin cites the Huichol) possibly even those of Peru (Arnold page 122 note 35 - although I need a bit more detail to confirm this) it might not be so inconceivable that the idea of mountains-as-water-stores was widespread (in one form or another) throughout the Americas, as is true of trickster archetype figures and the general attitude to sacrifice/pain etc. So perhaps the image of the earth cracking open is an attempted explanation of real events rather than a literal record of something observed.



Interesting hypothesis. Especially since the belief was held by various cultures.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer

The water-permeated thickness of the Ogallala Formation ranges from a few feet to more than 525 feet (160 m) and is generally greater in the northern plains. The depth of the water below the surface of the land ranges from almost 400 feet (122 m) in parts of the north to between 100 to 200 feet (30 to 61 m) throughout much of the south. Present-day recharge of the aquifer with fresh water occurs at a slow rate; this implies that much of the water in its pore spaces is paleowater, dating back to the last ice age.

Would explain the springs popping up and the moutains full of water.

[Minimalist]

Can you imagine an 150 meter wall of water coming out of nowhere...holy s**t

All one needs to do is consider the Indian Ocean tsunami which was a mere 30 feet of water coming "out of nowhere."

[Roberto]

We had a 30 foot wave, tsunami hit the Gulf Coast with Katrina.
I heard that wave coming in. Sounded like a high pitch roaring surf,
with trees and houses snapping and cracking. Lukily for me I had a
railroad track that formed a buffer between me and the water. Water
did not breach in my immediate neighborhood. Everything south of the
tracks along the coast was largely destroyed on the ENTIRE Mississippi
Gulf Coast! I don't want to even consider a wave any higher. The
destruction would be totally unimaginable! With a wave that large
I don't believe there would be much evidence of anything left
except one hiatus revealing a clean swept floor for a mile
or better!

[Charlie Hatchett]

We had a 30 foot wave, tsunami hit the Gulf Coast with Katrina.
I heard that wave coming in. Sounded like a high pitch roaring surf,
with trees and houses snapping and cracking. Lukily for me I had a
railroad track that formed a buffer between me and the water. Water
did not breach in my immediate neighborhood. Everything south of the
tracks along the coast was largely destroyed on the ENTIRE Mississippi
Gulf Coast! I don't want to even consider a wave any higher. The
destruction would be totally unimaginable! With a wave that large
I don't believe there would be much evidence of anything left
except one hiatus revealing a clean swept floor for a mile
or better! Shocked

Yup. We can't even imagine a 450' wall of water, moving at an amazing rate. We've never seen such a destructive force, nor has one been recorded in Historic times. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan pale to the force we're talking about here. It would be interesting , if we have any stat wizzes out there, to determine if the energy, contained within this massive alluvial event, exceeds the world's current total nuclear stockpile???

[Cognito]

Yup. We can't even imagine a 450' wall of water, moving at an amazing rate. We've never seen such a destructive force, nor has one been recorded in Historic times. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan pale to the force we're talking about here. It would be interesting , if we have any stat wizzes out there, to determine if the energy, contained within this massive alluvial event, exceeds the world's current total nuclear stockpile???

Charlie, I am not applying for the stat whiz award, but by comparing megatons of force, the water wins without even starting the calculation. The total volume of the rapidly moving floodwaters in megatons of weight alone exceeds the world's nuclear stockpile capacity for megatons of destruction by orders of magnitude.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Charlie, I am not applying for the stat whiz award, but by comparing megatons of force, the water wins without even starting the calculation. The total volume of the rapidly moving floodwaters in megatons of weight alone exceeds the world's nuclear stockpile capacity for megatons of destruction by orders of magnitude.

Right. I was just thinking about it roughly in my head....

You can imagine, now, with what we've been discussing, why so many cultures passed down the story of this amazing and terrifying alluvial event.

Again, we can't even imagine.